What’s Broken: The Program Changing Childcare in Pennsylvania
What if solving the childcare crisis required rethinking not just funding, but the entire workforce model?
In this episode of the Thinking CAAP podcast, Beck Moore and Heather Holloway are joined by Rachelle Abbott, President & CEO of STEP, Inc., and Meghann McBryan, Special Projects Coordinator, to unpack how one Community Action agency turned a regional staffing crisis into a sustainable, scalable solution.
You’ll hear how STEP’s Substitute Aid Pool program (originally funded by ARPA dollars) leverages gig-style scheduling, streamlined technology, and collaborative community partnerships to place trained classroom aides exactly where they’re needed. From onboarding to scheduling to retention, Meghann and Rachelle break down the real-world impact and what it takes to operationalize innovation in early childhood education.
Together, the team explores:
Why livable wages and workforce equity are central to solving the childcare crisis
How data and community needs assessments fueled this project’s design
What other regions can learn from STEP’s success—and how to scale it
Whether you're a nonprofit leader, policy advocate, or early learning professional, this episode offers an actionable look at the future of childcare support through the lens of Community Action.
Learn more about Lancaster County Community Action: https://caplanc.org/
Thinking CAAP Talking Points
[00:00] - Introduction and Guest Background on Childcare Challenges
Beck Moore welcomes co-host Heather Holloway and guests Rachelle Abbott, president and CEO of STEP Inc., and Meghann McBryan, Special Projects Coordinator.
They introduce the topic of childcare challenges in central Pennsylvania, highlighting the agency's continuous improvement efforts and the origins of their substitute aid pool project.
[02:30] - Community Needs Assessment and Continuous Improvement in Childcare
Rachelle Abbott explains how the community needs assessment identified childcare shortages and staffing issues in Lycoming County.
She discusses the importance of continuous improvement in addressing these gaps and how the agency leveraged this data to develop innovative childcare solutions.
[04:50] - Launching the Substitute Aid Pool with ARPA Funding
The conversation focuses on how ARPA dollars enabled STEP to fund the substitute aid pool over three and a half years.
Rachelle emphasizes persistence in securing funding and credits strong project management by Meghann McBryan for operationalizing the initiative.
[09:15] - The Childcare Staffing Crisis and Economic Impact
Meghann McBryan outlines the childcare staffing crisis, explaining how licensed capacity often exceeds actual childcare availability due to insufficient qualified staff.
The lack of livable wages and education challenges exacerbate the issue, resulting in a significant economic impact on families and communities.
[12:45] - Community Collaboration and Policy Discussions on Childcare
The podcast highlights recent roundtable discussions with legislators and local leaders addressing childcare shortages.
They discuss barriers like pay rates, staffing.
[14:19] - Childcare as a Critical Workforce Development Issue
The conversation emphasizes that investing in childcare directly supports workforce development, highlighting the lack of backup childcare options for families and the significant impact childcare closures have on employees’ ability to work.
Meghann shares survey data illustrating childcare scarcity and its ripple effects.
[16:41] - Pay Equity Challenges in Early Childhood Education
Rachelle Abbott and Meghann McBryan discuss the difficulties in offering livable wages to childcare workers.
They explore internal struggles around base salaries and the wage disparities between early childhood educators and K-6 teachers, stressing the need for equitable pay to reflect the importance of early childhood care.
[20:32] - The Importance of Early Childhood Stimulation and Advocacy for Fair Wages
The panel highlights how early brain development before age three makes quality childcare essential.
They advocate for salary equity for childcare workers, stressing that low wages contradict the critical role these educators play in child development and school readiness.
[21:42] - Universal Childcare Initiatives and the High Cost of Childcare
Heather acknowledges New Mexico’s pioneering free universal childcare effort.
The group discusses the high and often underestimated costs of childcare, comparing it to mortgage payments, and underscores the need for diverse childcare options to support families and workforce stability.
[26:12] - Operational Overview of the Substitute Aid Pool Program
Meghann explains the innovative Substitute Aid Pool program, detailing the hiring, training, and onboarding of substitute classroom aides as part-time STEP employees.
[27:36] - Innovative Childcare Aid Pool Onboarding and Scheduling System
Meghann McBryan explains the onboarding process for childcare aids and how providers enroll in a scheduling app.
The platform handles shift postings, claims, approvals, and stores documentation, streamlining childcare staffing and communication between providers and aides seamlessly.
[30:24] - Transparent Pricing and Sustainable Funding Model for Childcare Aide Services
Meghann details the cost structure: providers pay $18/hour for aide usage, covering aide wages and an administrative fee.
Enrollment is free, and Meghann handles setup and training, ensuring the program’s financial sustainability while making it accessible and efficient for providers.
[34:09] - Technology’s Role in Reducing Administrative Burden and Enhancing Relationships
Meghann highlights how the scheduling app automates workflows and fosters direct communication between aides and providers via embedded chat.
This reduces her administrative workload and allows the program to operate smoothly with minimal oversight.
[37:08] - Flexible Gig-Style Workforce Model Addressing Childcare Employment Barriers
The gig-worker style scheduling attracts aides needing flexible schedules, such as parents balancing childcare.
This model creates employment opportunities for individuals with limited availability while addressing childcare desert challenges by enabling part-time, on-demand work.
[38:55] - Unexpected Outcomes and Broader Applications of the Aid Pool Model
Six aides have been hired by childcare centers yet remain active in the pool for additional shifts, showing strong retention.
The model is also being adapted for part-time transportation drivers, demonstrating the versatility of it’s operationalization.
[41:06] - Streamlining Human Services with Automation and Scheduling
The discussion opens with the importance of automation in human services to reduce administrative burdens.
Especially through features like callback systems and appointment scheduling, improving accessibility for clients and staff with competing priorities.
[42:55] - Employee Loyalty and Transparency in a New Workforce Model
Meghann McBryan highlights surprising loyalty from aides engaged in the program.
She emphasizes transparency about unpredictable hours and framing the role as supplementary work, which has fostered commitment and effective communication with facility directors.
[45:38] - Team Effort and Community Collaboration Driving Program Success
The hosts discuss how a strong team ethos and collaborative relationships among providers and aides have been central to the program’s success.
This includes sharing feedback and supporting one another across counties without competition.
[46:44] - Scaling the Workforce Program Statewide and Sharing Best Practices
Meghann shares her vision to expand the program statewide, inspired by successful models like Washington state.
She describes how sharing processes and support with other organizations like Lancaster CAAP demonstrates the power of Community Action and knowledge exchange.
[51:55] - Program Impact and Future Growth in Workforce Solutions
As of August 31st, the program filled 87% of 485 posted shifts, with some months near 99%, proving its effectiveness.
The conversation concludes with optimism about continued growth, workforce challenges in childcare and early learning, and an invitation for listener engagement.
[53:08] - Celebrating Community Impact and Encouraging Statewide Collaboration
Beck Moore commends Rachelle Abbott and Meghann McBryan for their dedication to Pennsylvania’s children and community.
He encourages listeners to adopt similar initiatives and emphasizes sharing successful programs to expand community impact across the state.
[53:33] - Reflecting on Growth and the Role of Podcasts in Community Action
Beck reflects on how conversations around Community Action have evolved from before the podcast era to now.
He highlights the podcast’s role in amplifying innovative efforts and fostering growth within community organizations.
[54:11] - Invitation to Share Innovative Community Program Experiences
Beck encourages listeners to share their own innovative Community Action programs.
The podcast aims to spotlight these experiences to help organizations learn, grow, and strengthen their community impact networks.
[54:26] - Closing Remarks and Listener Engagement
Beck thanks guests and listeners, reminding them to check show notes for additional resources and to subscribe.
He invites Community Action questions to keep the conversation going in future episodes.
Episode 22 Transcript
00:00:11
Oh, everything's up, Beck. Thank you so much. So thrilled to be here. I love that we have a little four screen here. It's like, I don't know, like we're playing video games or something.
00:00:19
I love it. I know. I'm excited. I'm excited. We have some really amazing guests.
00:00:24
Welcome to Rachelle Abbott. Rachelle is a third time guest, I believe, officially on the podcast. So this is old hat for her. She's an expert. I could leave and she could do this, but she is the president CEO of Step Inc. Chief banana in charge there.
00:00:38
Rachelle. So nice to see you again. So glad to be here. Thank you so much for having me again. The last two times were just amazing.
00:00:45
So I had to come back. Right. It’s true. Nice. Well, and so I learned in our kind of a little bit of a prep call before, I mean, if our listeners had listened to your prior episode, they know that you've had a little bit of a stint in radio at some point, as did Meghann. So, you know, I'm the only, I'm the odd man out here in terms of radio experience.
00:01:03
So one of these things is not like the other. Beck, we're gonna have to switch careers. I, I guess so if anybody's hiring looking for a radio job. Good luck. I know, right? I have a friend that works in radio and of course then Meghann McBryan, our other guest today, special projects coordinator at STEP.
00:01:22
Right, Meghann, that's your title. Hi, I'm happy to be here. I'm excited. Thank you for having us. Of course.
00:01:27
So really excited to talk about a project that you all have been running with a part of growing all the things. I know that it's created. I know some, some energy in on a state level and excited to talk about it and really share some innovation that you all are providing. So want to jump into it right away so that we honor everybody's time and. But before we really, I ask my first question, I want to kind of talk a little bit with you, Rachelle, about one of the backbones of Community Action.
00:01:58
And if you've listened before to our listeners, we talked a little bit about community needs assessment as a part of this kind of the secret sauce of Community Action. And I think episode seven with Jen Wintermeyer, who is the Tri County Community Action Executive director and in some previous episodes as well, is that that's one of the requirements of what Community Action does, right? Every three years, gotta do community needs assessments. Understanding deep local need is a part of our agencies do really, really well. But the other cornerstone here is something that I know is near and dear to your heart, Rachelle, which is continuous improvement.
00:02:31
And I think this project really reflects the marriage of those two things. And so when we talk about continuous improvement and the requirement of that within Community Action, there's a couple things I'll point out. One, that our boards of our organizations and our staff of our organizations are required to go through that training on a. On a fairly regular basis. What that training looks like is a little bit different from state to state, but ultimately it's a requirement.
00:02:56
And those organizations who do this really well then embed the continuous improvement aspects in everything that they do, right. From a management perspective, from a process perspective. And so I really see, again, these two things coming to life within the scope of this project. Can you start a little bit at the beginning, Rachelle, to kick us off about kind of that and how this really. How did you discover this idea and how it really was born with life, if you will.
00:03:25
The origin story. The origin story, the Batman story. Is that right? Is that good? Yes.
00:03:30
So right on, Beck. Like, as a Community Action agency, the needs assessment is really foundational to who and what we are. And our needs assessment for the last, since I've been here, which is right around 15 years, has been illustrating that childcare and early care and education is an area of need. In terms of location, we're kind of central Pennsylvania, so a little bit rural. We do have some urban centers, but they're very small urban centers.
00:03:57
With Williamsport and Lockhaven, we are really a child care desert. We don't have enough slots in child care to accommodate the number of children to go into those slots year after year, when we were doing these assessments, it just kept saying, you know, the staffing issues, the childcare issues, and not having enough slots. So the capacity issues were all very evident. Right. And so that is something that.
00:04:30
With the Early Learning Resource center, which is actually a part of a program under the STEP umbrella, we were kind of researching and thinking about what can we do to kind of look at affecting this need. And definitely want to give a shout out to Melissa Kirschner, the ELRC director, because her. It was really one of the things within our conversation. She was like, I've heard that there's these substitute aide pools and maybe that would be helpful for staffing. And so that is really kind of where it started.
00:05:06
And I'm a planner, as you know, and not just a planner, but like a go get her.
00:05:14
And so, you know, I took that idea. Yes, a solution finder, a fixer, all things. And so really kind of took that idea and then ran with it. And it happened to be during a time frame where the county was actually looking for possible program opportunities for the ARPA dollars. We had just kind of released based on the data as well, kind of a state of child care within the counties, which was a more deep dive from the community needs assessment.
00:05:44
So the community needs assessment identified this need and this gap and then the state of child care. The Early Learning Resource center dug deeper into, did some surveys, did some research, and we presented that to the community. One of the rolling pieces of it was thinking about how we can develop and move forward with the substitute aide pool. I definitely know that there was conversations about ones around in Pennsylvania and other ones. So we kind of like wrote it up the best that we could figure.
00:06:18
And then it took about three and a half years, yes, three and a half years to get the funding through the county of Lycoming. We are very grateful for the funding that came through the ARPA dollars because really that is what has allowed us to be able to move this program forward. And so the ARPA dollars came in and the first thing we said was like we needed a, you know, somebody really with that project management skills to be able to move it forward. That's how we were able to bring on Meghann to really focus on the operationalization of that. But really the origins came from looking at that gap, doing more research in terms of that state of childcare and then understanding what a potential solution could be, and then really kind of continuing to bug the funders until we actually got the money to be able to make this happen.
00:07:14
And then really kind of thinking long term in terms of strategy. Yeah. So I want to want to unbox all of what you just, just said quite a bit. So I think want to just point out we're going to get to the funding side in a little while when we talk through some more questions. But I think one of the things that I just want to make sure to say there that you just said that is top of mind for me right now, sitting on a couple boards and also just kind of given the State of the Union at the time that we're recording this, we're still sitting in a state budget impasse.
00:07:38
And so dollars are particularly scarce on top of then, you know, the national concerns and issues with respect to all of the dollars and federal funding that many of our human services providers receive in the state of Pennsylvania. And so what that means, right, is that funding is scarce and hard and people are having to make really hard decisions right now. Hopefully by the time this episode airs, we're out of the state budget impasse. And we have some news on the federal budget side. But what you said there with respect to the funding is that you continue to bug.
00:08:05
Right. The county. And so ARPA funds for a reminder for our listeners, if you're not familiar, American Rescue Plan Act dollars that were sort of a Covid response, right. Influx of cash in our local communities for county, state government, right. To try to figure out solutions on some of the problems that were happening from a Covid response perspective.
00:08:25
But a lot of times what we find in funding environment and I'm going to harp on this for just a minute, that's not the purpose of the episode, but I'll harp on this for just a minute, is that we get a yes and then we don't get the follow up that we need. And so then we might let that slip through the cracks. But that can, when you see the interest, right. You've got to jump on it and you've got to continue to ask and don't give up. And three years is a long time.
00:08:47
But ultimately that got you the funding to do this really innovative project that is now creating real community solution. And that took energy and time. So don't lose hope, right? Yes, don't lose hope. Yeah.
00:09:00
Just want to make sure to say that out loud. So one of, really quickly, Beck, I'll say, like, you know, as the marketer that's running a business and not in a Community Action organization, you know, the fortune is in the follow up, even if that follow up takes three years. So stay pesky. Stay pesky. Right.
00:09:19
But the fortune would follow. Yeah, yeah. And I think the key of it too is that childcare was a area so impacted during the COVID pandemic with our childcare workers being essential workers and many of them like leaving their families to keep childcare facilities open. And so that direct connection with those ARPA dollars made total sense. Right.
00:09:42
And so the industry of childcare has not rebounded. We lost a lot of centers along the way. And so this is just kind of one piece in this like larger picture, right. Of where we're at in terms of the really the state of childcare right now and early learning. So I want to back up a little bit into some of the data pieces that you talked about and talk about the childhood educational needs information that's on your website.
00:10:14
So if folks are interested stepcorp.org, so step s t e p c o r p.org, you can go there, look at the part of the website that speaks to the substitute teacher pool and specifically this kind of flyer right. About the data. Can you talk a little bit about. And this is for either one of you, Meghann or Rachelle, any some of the data with respect to kind of that childcare slots for people who may not really understand what that means. Right.
00:10:42
And I know it kind of sounds simplistic to us, but I was talking to Meghann. Right. Like sometimes we have the curse of knowledge inside and so want to help people understand some context for. Right. Like when we look at the number of spots that we're losing what that really means and kind of unpack that a little bit.
00:10:58
Do you want me to go Meghann, or you got. Yeah, go ahead and I'll touch on. And so I think each child care is basically licensed for a certain number of slots, yet they can only run at the capacity of which they have the ratio of staff at. And I think that is something really key to understand because you could have a facility that may be licensed for 100 kiddos, right. But they only have enough staff to have 80 or 60.
00:11:27
And so you're already down that capacity within that. In addition, within the last several years we've had a lot of places close retire with no real replacement of new childcares into those. And so not only do you have the child cares and early learning centers not running at their license capacity, right. Because of staff, the staffing crisis, you also have ones that have left who are not being able to be replaced. And so we are I think the why yesterday we actually had a child care roundtable.
00:12:06
Like actually it was an early childhood roundtable discussion with a bunch of legislators and our local leadership council and the YWCA basically or YMCA stated that if they were able to run at their capacity with all their openings, it be an additional 360 children. Ish. If you think about that. And many of the child care providers in the room talked about how they're not able to open their classrooms because there's just not enough staff to operate them. There's a lot of factors into them not being able to find staff.
00:12:44
The education requirement, the rate of pay, the average rate of pay for many childcare and early learning professionals within our counties, the average is about 10 dollars. Some of them are actually making about 7.50. Yeah. I mean, this is real. Yeah, I know. You know, one of our local educational institutions opted to not continue with a degree program because people were moving out of college and not getting a livable wage once they were able to use their degree.
00:13:20
So all of those factors really have a impact on that overall child care and early learning, where we're at right now. And so what does that do? It creates basically a huge gap where families who are looking for childcare don't have places for their children to go. Oftentimes are making decision as to where their children are going or whether or not they're being able to take employment or not take employment.
00:13:50
The pay structure is very challenging with, you know, the cost of care not being, what, like the parents are paying, and then, you know, when you add in, you only have 60 days to find a spot. If you are part of the subsidy program and you can't find a spot, then you can't receive the subsidy. Yeah. So what I hear you say, economic impact. There's a huge economic impact.
00:14:19
Like childcare is workforce development. Absolutely. Investing in childcare is workforce development. Hear me loud and clear. Childcare is workforce development.
00:14:30
Put it on a T shirt. We're doing it. We're doing it. Meghann, I feel like you have a take on this. Well, yeah, just to touch on that, you know, as part of this roundtable thing, we surveyed, we surveyed our providers, we surveyed families and parents in our area just to kind of get an understanding from both sides of what that was looking like.
00:14:48
And some of the data was, like, glaring. I mean, one of the things I think for me, that stuck out the most was we did, you know, we surveyed parents, and one of the questions we asked was, if the child care you utilize today were to close, do you have a backup plan? 90% of them did not. No, I don't. 90%.
00:15:11
There are no other spots. There are no other spots where there's one. And I. This year, we opted out of it because other continuing, you know, extenuating circumstances. But there's only one child care facility, you know, facility that is close to us that is within my child's school district area.
00:15:28
Yeah. Yep. And we actually had. On top of that, too, we had a superintendent from one of the school districts in our area speak last night, and we had one of the childcare providers who is in that neighborhood. Right.
00:15:42
And one of the things he talked about and he said, you know, I realized how big of an issue this was when that childcare for whatever reason, one day had to close, right? And he goes, obviously, I know my, my, you know, employees use childcare and stuff, but I didn't realize how, how many until that day. He said, my phone started ringing off the hook, and the sheer amount of my employees that were not able to come to work for one day because of that one center closing blew his mind. He was like, you really get an understanding for it at that point. Well, I think the other thing here, with respect to kind of the cost, the livable wage component that I want to point out is that I think it's something that we, I know, Rachelle, we've talked about in executive leadership discussions is that when we think about the pay that Community Action Agency employees receive, there's always this kind of internal structure struggle about how much are we paying at our base salary?
00:16:41
How much can we afford to pay at our base salary? And is that really a livable wage? And if our job is to help lift people up into self sufficiency and beyond, is it the right choice for us to employ folks at this pay scale because it feels indirect competition with that as a value? And so it's a hard thing to figure out and reconcile. But I think, to go back to your point, right, childcare is a workforce development issue.
00:17:12
I can't underscore that enough. I know in thinking about this episode, I was walking my kiddos to school. We live about a half a mile away from our school, and I'm thankful for that. But we got a text one morning, we're about halfway to school, and a squirrel had eaten through an electrical line. So school was closed that day.
00:17:32
And I was like, I gotta get on the road. Like, I'm supposed to be on the other half of the state right now. My wife is already at work. I'm thankful that I work in an organization that I. If I need to, I can work from home.
00:17:43
And I do work from home most days. But if that wasn't the case, you know, I potentially lose my job if I don't get time off. And so what does that mean for me? Because there. If my kid's supposed to be in school, there's no childcare facility I can just go and drop them off at.
00:17:57
Right? So I think it's. This is just such a layered challenge across the state. And again, you know why I think this project is just so innovative? Because you've created.
00:18:05
You've created a real amazing solution. I want to. May I throw a curveball in. Go ahead, Rachelle. I was just gonna say One of the like other points I think that's super important was, you know, we have partnered actually with a researcher at Lycoming College who talked about, you know, basically the students who are going into the field of early education and the pay rate that they'll be getting if they went into like pre K as opposed to when, if they went into like kindergarten, first, second, third, all the way up to sixth grade.
00:18:38
And the pay difference is staggering. Right. And so we're paying the least really for kind of our most vulnerable kiddos. Right. And so for those like the little itsy bitsy babies and the toddlers and up to age 5.
00:18:56
And so just that system we have to change somehow. Right. And as part of the substitute aide pool program, one of our biggest struggles was really getting providers on board with the fact that we're not going to pay the same rates you are. Yeah, right. So we use.
00:19:16
Sorry, go ahead. No, no, no, go ahead and then I'll get to my question. I don't want to step on your answer. I was going to say, like we use equity salary scale here at STEP. And so we really looked at these positions, the aide, the substitute classroom aides as very similar to the aides that we use in Head Start.
00:19:33
Even though their job descriptions are different, they were actually categorized the same through that salary study. And so they receive close to $15 an hour at starting wage. And so without any of the childcares, you know, having less as that salary, you know, we got a lot of pushback at first, but we talked about the reasons in terms of they're only working 20 hours a week, it can only be part time, they're not getting benefits. There's various pieces, the flexibility piece. And so we did definitely get child cares on board to understand.
00:20:10
But the real push is that we're not lowering our rates to meet what it is. We're going to be continually trying to push those rates because of the value that these individuals have within these very important jobs. And that's the one thing. And Heather, I want to make sure to get to your question too, but I want to also talk about for just a second. Is that to your point, Rachelle?
00:20:32
Right. That age between kind of start of child care to right before school and going into school is what is it, 75% of the human brain. Right. Fully established right before, by the age of 3, 75%. So those things that happen to us, right.
00:20:48
Like whether we're left, you know, crying in a crib or crying in a bassinet or a pack and play or whatever, whether or not we're stimulated, how we're stimulated. Right. Mentally. Right. Those things end up equating to our success in kindergarten.
00:21:01
And, you know, I grew up in the 80s. We didn't. We didn't have, you know, early childhood education in the same way that we have now. But we understand more about the human psyche. Right.
00:21:15
How our brains form now. And so we owe it to our kiddos. Schools more complicated earlier than what it was for us. And so it's an important level of education that I just. To your point about the salary, it's in opposition to what needs to be there.
00:21:32
There needs to be equity within those positions. So I don't want to harp too much on that as an advocacy point, but I do think that it's really important. Heather, you had a question. I want to make sure that you get a chance to answer. Yeah, absolutely.
00:21:42
First statement, I just want to say thank you, Rachelle and Meghann, for advocating for the child care workers to have a living wage. And I understand that in this line of work, it's thankless. So if you don't get any gratitude, I want to share it. Right now. Y' all are doing God's work.
00:21:59
You know what I mean? So thank you for pushing that. But did you all see the headline about New Mexico? Yeah. New Mexico is the first state to offer free universal child care for all families starting this November.
00:22:13
Yes. Like, what would it. First of all, what's the reaction on that? Honestly, 100%. You know, I think that we know, like, the.
00:22:26
The research shows we know what needs to happen, and I think that that is absolutely awesome. I think when we do. Meghann, what would you. I want to make sure you have a chance. I was just gonna say, too.
00:22:37
I think, you know, someone has to take the chance. Right. And I think that's almost how we felt about this program, too. Like, someone has to take the chance and see what happens. So I was really happy to see.
00:22:50
See that. I'm like, I'm excited to see how it works for them. Yeah, me too. And I'm curious, you know, I'm curious to see how maybe what you're doing can be influenced by that or vice versa. I mean, you're out there, you know, doing the thing.
00:23:04
But. But, Beck, you're gonna say something. Well, I just want to say, like, in poverty simulations, you know, which is something that Community Action agencies do. If you're looking for a poverty simulation, reach out to info@theCAAP.org, we're happy to connect you with a local agency who can do that training for you. But in poverty simulations, one of the things in the debriefing process that we talk about is the cost of childcare.
00:23:21
And I'm always amazed when I participate in those as a volunteer what people think child care actually costs and what I know that my bill has been and, or would be, you know, average child care costs for, for a month. You'll have, you'll hear people say, oh, you know, like $400 and you're like, I don't know where you're sending your kids. I wish 1200, right? Like it's a mortgage payment. And that's for one.
00:23:44
Yeah, right. You have two, three. Yep. It's even more so like buy two, get one. Like.
00:23:51
No, I wish. That’ll be great. Right? I know. It's like when you take your pets to the vet, you get a discount if you have multiple pets.
00:23:58
Can we do that for childcare? Some people, some places do, but yeah, I mean, I just think it's, it is wild what it actually costs and what people think it, it costs. So do yourself a favor if you don't know the answer to this, if you don't have kids, good for you. Sure, your house is much cleaner than mine, but Google, Google what it costs.
00:24:16
Actually look it up because I think people will be surprised. And it, you know, it varies pretty drastically from county to county, but it's not cheap, folks. And think about that, right? Like we're saying that childcare isn't cheap and yet, right. The cost of doing business, right.
00:24:32
And the cost of the staffing, we're still having these, these wage rates that are, that are so low. And so, you know, which means that something else has to come to play, right? Something else has to come and help support, right. That, you know, whether it's the, the, you know, the commercial or the, you know, the chamber, you know, individual looking at childcare as a benefit to employment, you know, what does that look like? We talk about that often.
00:25:00
That should be a whole another episode. So I'm not going to go down that road. But like that's a whole other thing. But, but there's a lot of pieces within it. You know, in basically any community, to be able to be thriving, they have to have the, all the range of options of child care, right?
00:25:16
That's everything. To be able to meet everyone's schedule. It'd be great if everybody had a pop in childcare location, right? Kind of the private pay, the subsidy pay, that whole range of childcare is what is 100% needed within any community. To be able to allow for the workforce, right, to be able to move forward or you're just not going to have those families take the jobs within those communities.
00:25:43
Because the first thing people do when they move to an area is what do the schools look like and what is the child care situation? So I want to get into, so we talked a little bit about the how and the why, but I want to talk about really, you know, the what, how this happens on the day to day basis. What does the program look like? And so again, Meghann or Rachelle, if you can talk to us a little bit about what, what really we're talking about. Because folks are probably like, okay, substitute aide pool, like how is this so innovative?
00:26:12
We've talked a little bit about some of the pay equity pieces, which are great. But walk us through really like the mechanics of how this works. So yeah, I can do that. So to just kind of walk you through each of the pieces within the program. So, you know, starting off right is the hiring and training of aides.
00:26:35
So STEP, we do that. So they are STEP employees. So we hire substitute classroom aides as part time employees of STEP, so they can work up to 20 hours a week within the pool. Now as part of that, once they're hired on, they go through an onboarding process with us. So.
00:26:55
And I know you said that knowledge piece, so. So some people know there's a lot that you have to do before you can ever walk in a classroom and work with children. I mean, a laundry list of things have to be completed. So that's clearances, CPR trainings, fire safety trainings. You have to have a physical TB test, you have to have references, high school diploma.
00:27:19
So we take them through that onboarding process. We cover the cost for our aides of obtaining any clearances they need, any trainings they need. More importantly, we also pay them for their time. Why they do that? You know, one of the trainings they complete is a mandated reporter training.
00:27:36
That's a three hour training. We pay them to do that. So we take them through the onboarding process, complete all the necessary steps that the state requires for someone to work in child care. And then once that's done, they are available to be an active aide in our pool. So on the provider side, then what we do is we work with providers.
00:27:57
If they have an interest in enrolling into the pool, they complete an enrollment form. And I basically am just asking them for as much information they can give me about their facility, location, hours, shifts, you know, all of that. And I work with them to enroll into the pool. Now, the pool itself is all ran through a scheduling software, okay? So all aides, all providers, they get a user profile created in the app.
00:28:28
And so that allows our providers to go in and post their shift vacancies, and then it allows our aides to get alerted. Anytime there's a shift vacancy, it's on an app on their phone. They get a notification. And then what happens is if an aide is like, hey, yeah, that's a shift I want to try to take, they put a claim in for it. All of those claims get directed back to the director of the location.
00:28:55
They choose who comes into their facility. They approve the claim for whatever aide they'd like to come in, and then our aide goes out to that location that day, fills in for that shift. And that's like, the premise of it, right? So within the software system, pretty much the entire programs ran through it. Everything from communication, trainings, scheduling, timesheets, it houses all their documents in there so that our providers have access to all their clearances and everything if they need it on the spot. You know, we do celebrations in there.
00:29:32
We celebrate, you know, birthdays or, you know, anniversaries. We share a lot of information in there. Even. You know, the nice thing about us being the ERC is there's a lot of professional development and training opportunities. So we're able to share all of that with our aides throughout the pool and our providers in there.
00:29:49
Hey, you know, we have a training coming up, you know, if something your staff would be interested in. So everything runs through the app. Now, as far as the usage, there's no fee for a provider to enroll in the pool. That's completely free. And I do all the legwork.
00:30:05
So I set them up when they go in there. Each provider has their own schedule and time clock within the program. So I do all that, set everything up. I then go out to their facility, and I give them an orientation on how to use the software program. So there's no fee to just do that.
00:30:24
So the only time a provider incurs a fee is for aide usage per hour. So what we do is we charge them per hour to utilize an aide, and then we invoice them monthly for any usage that they have in the pool. Now, some specifics, we pay 14.65 an hour to our aides. Our providers pay US$18 an hour for aide usage, and that is covering, you know, us paying the aide, their wage, and then an administrative fee for their spot in the app. Because we pay for that.
00:30:59
It's a subscription. We pay it yearly. And so, you know, that's an administrative fee on top of that. But yeah, I mean it's really simple when you really think of it that way. You know, it's, it's all driven through the app and I think the technology piece of it is, if not the biggest factor that has made this successful.
00:31:22
I think it's also opened up like a new type of worker. Yeah, right. And so you're kind of like taking that gig worker model, but you're like putting it in childcare. So individuals who like may need a bit more flexibility in their day to day life or work, yet they do have maybe an affinity to working with children. And so there's this whole different style of employee that we're getting through the pool that I think has been absolutely incredible to be able to kind of see and be able to foster through the program.
00:31:55
And so I think that that has been really neat and something that I don't know that we expected. I'm really proud to say that through the program all the individuals that started and actually went through the orientation are still members of staff in the program today. That was going to be some of my question, follow up questions around kind of the unintended outcomes. And so I want to get back to that. But roughly.
00:32:18
Right. How many, how many substitutes are you working with at this point? I currently have 13 aides that are active in the pool and we currently have eight providers with a total of 13 locations that we service. Nice. And so what I love is that you've built in the, some of the overhead costs to the service that you're providing so that it can continue to fund the project.
00:32:42
Right. So that, that's there. You've been thoughtful about all those pieces. I want to kind of dig into this technology side a little bit because I think one of the things that we've heard fairly often within human services and within Community Action is that, you know, there's so much technology innovation that's happening in the world and there's more AI on top of more AI on top of more AI. And as someone who affectionately my office, my team, I get called pop up because I both love and hate technology and kind of know how to use it most days and then other days don't.
00:33:13
Depends, you know. Heather, one day I'll figure out how to use Canva, I'm sure. But for now I'm happy with my time. Thank you very much. But anyway, so I want to talk a little bit about the technology because I think where we know we can save administrative costs as organizations is investing in technology, but more often than not we don't have time to invest in it.
00:33:32
And so then it keeps getting kind of pushed, you know, on the back burner. So has there been any particular automation that you've built in within this that has saved you a tremendous amount of time that you can point out or something that eventually you'd like to build in in terms of automation? And I know that for our listeners who are outside of Pennsylvania, as Meghann's thinking about the answer to this question, one of the things that is a little tricky for us is that our child care laws are really, they're some of the toughest in the country. And so there's a lot of layers that Meghann mentioned there that other states don't have. I think us in Massachusetts are kind of like the top two highest and above, right.
00:34:09
Restrictions on who can, how, all of those pieces. But anything within the automation that you want to, want to speak to or the technology on the whole, that's really helped, you know, beyond the scheduling pieces. Right. I mean, I really do think the use of it as a whole and I think one of the ways is the relationship building. Right.
00:34:31
That's one of the things we kind of noticed right away is, you know, subs go out and they'll go to a particular facility a handful of times, right? Maybe. And then the next thing I know I'm looking in and I'm like, oh, you know, so and so has five shifts. I didn't see like any pop ups come in to claim them. And it's because the provider is just working directly with the aide and giving them the shifts because they've been in their facility, there's a chat embedded in it.
00:35:01
So they are communicating without me. They're going directly to the source and working with them and putting in. So I think for me that takes a lot of leg work, you know what I mean? It's like they're kind of, the relationships are forming on their own. The program's running itself really.
00:35:18
And, and to that point I, you know, I was hired, you know, as a full time position for this role. I would say about seven, eight months in. I went to Rachelle and said, I don't have 40 hours worth of work. The program is running. Good for you for lifting it up, you know what I mean?
00:35:37
Like the program is running itself. Like once, once you're in it and once you're utilizing it, there's very little. I do, I mean, I, I do, you know, all Day. It's on my screen, I will tell you that. And we talked about this a little bit earlier.
00:35:50
I'm a Virgo, so for me it's like we're filling every shift and we're doing it right, you know. And I'm a stickler, so I do a lot of oversight in that way. Like hey, if maybe I can shift some aides around to create more coverage. But I mean it really does run itself when it comes to just the day to day operation of the program. And I think that's been the biggest, the biggest part of it.
00:36:14
Yeah, I think just the idea of using this type of scheduling technology to fill shifts is very innovative, particularly in Community Action and any kind of like nonprofit service. And we're actually taking this model and actually translated it to our part time transportation drivers. So we operate the shared ride program for multi county region. And so we often have like these one off shifts are basically rides to various locations that if we were able to have somebody come in and just do those rides it would take off the kind of overall burden to the part time and full time drivers. So I think we have three substitute drivers now that works just like this aide pool program where you have basically the ride that needs to happen and these drivers can come in and pick up shifts and it's working really well.
00:37:08
And so I think that just the model of the type of employee now that we're getting because we're becoming and utilizing these technology pieces has allowed us and opened up such a different type of workforce, you know that wants to have coffee and not get into the, not do anything until 10 o' clock and just, and wants to be able to be home by 3:30 to be able to go watch a show. Look, I mean sounds awesome if you have kids, right? And I need to get my kids ready in the morning, I need to get them to school. Like there's, I can't find other employment. There's a gap right in my day gonna get my kids off to school, I'm gonna go work.
00:37:49
I don't have a backup. Maybe I'm a single parent and so my kid gets sick, I can choose not to take a, take a, take a job for the day, right? And then best part, I'm home by the time they get home from school because guess what? Childcare desert. I don't have anywhere to send my kids.
00:38:02
So then I'm home with them in the, in the afternoon. So it, it creates a pipeline also for folks who otherwise employment isn't a reality because their time is limited because of their, who their family is. I do think one other aspect too is the training. You know, as part of the onboarding, there's, you know, the three hour manager reporter training. They do a ten hour training on better kid care, all of that.
00:38:24
They no longer have to come into a physical building and sit there and someone has to be there. They do it from home, they clock in at home. They complete it on their own time. They clock out. So I think that's an aspect, you know, you can look at when it comes to that as well.
00:38:37
It's like you don't have to worry about housing someone to do a training somewhere and having someone there to do it. They're doing it on their own time at home and it's worked out really well. Yeah. And we've had throughout the time. I think this is something that's really important and kind of just shows how the model is working.
00:38:55
Six aides have been hired out of the pool. Two childcares. They have all asked to stay in the pool. Yeah. Oh my.
00:39:05
Okay. There's the twist that I wasn't expecting. I've been sitting on the edge of my seat like that was going to. Come up as one of my unexpected outcomes. Yeah.
00:39:12
I was going to say, are they getting hired then? But they're like, no, I don't want to go. That's. No, they do, they do. Oh, they do go.
00:39:22
They do go. But then they still stay in the pool for when they're not working. So let's say they get hired on at a after school program. Right. They're only working 3 to 6, but if a preschool needs a 9 to 1 shift filled, they can go do it, you know, so.
00:39:39
This is amazing. Yeah. This is amazing.
00:39:44
So I think that one of the things that I will point out about kind of like the automation piece and just the technology piece, that for our folks who are within human services, you know, think about. You've got to really think about technology in a couple different ways. And I think this program is also representative of something that we've talked about, Rachelle, in terms of the healthcare partnerships that exist across the state. Right. This is, this program is within the framework of what you already do.
00:40:09
It's not a new program. Right. It's simply elevating capability and has direct economic impact on the local community that you're trying to serve. Right. It addresses a community need.
00:40:19
And so it's within the framework. And that's really important because a lot of times when we will talk about things like this, people say oh, you know, I can't take on a new program. I don't have the capacity. But all of these unintended outcomes and benefits back to the community, I would argue it, it creates other solutions along the way, that it's worth the investment of time in terms of looking at it. And I think the other thing is that sometimes we're really good at.
00:40:43
And I don't mean this about Community Action, I mean this on the whole when we work within this field, is that we really are good at thinking about, okay, what's the needs of our community. But then we forget about the framework in which I exist as someone who's struggling to make ends meet. And so I think when I think about kind of what this represents for individuals, for scheduling. Right. It's.
00:41:06
I also think about it in terms of like direct client work. And if I need to make a phone call to an office and I'm working at a job that I can't take time off, I don't really get a lunch. A lunchtime. Right. And I need to make a call to get a need met.
00:41:20
How automation can be built into helping that person after hours. Right. And. Or scheduling an appointment so that I don't have to sit on a phone call waiting to figure out how to schedule a phone call. This type of automation I think is part of what really becomes hypercritical to helping human services become more administratively less burdensome and ultimately helping more people.
00:41:42
Because if you've sat on the phone to call the county assistance office ever, which I absolutely have, you know, six hour waiting time. That's not real. Now, luckily, thanks to DHS, right. They've implemented the callback feature. But you know, who has time to sit on hold for however long?
00:42:02
It's wild and. Or I just can't simply get to the phone to make a phone call because I just have other things, competing priorities. Yes. Next podcast we talk about find my ride. Yes.
00:42:14
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, seriously. Yeah, well, hold. Hold me, hold me accountable to that. Our editor out there, you know, Amy.
00:42:22
Shout out to Amy to all the listeners because Amy's remarkable. But Amy will hold us accountable to making sure to get that scheduled. Yes, she will. I bet you she already put that as a task in Asana. I was going to say our project management software that we are working on on a regular basis.
00:42:35
So a couple more questions that I want to make sure to ask and I want to be respectful of your all's time. I know you're very busy people. Anything else that's been really surprising about this project or other unintended outcomes that you want to make sure to lift up. Because I'm sure that there have probably been more than what we've touched on. I mean, just elaborate on that.
00:42:55
That aspect of the employees. It's the loyalty to the program that really shocked me. Right. I mean, zero turnover so far with aides that have, you know, completely went through onboarding and have been in a facility. And, you know, like I said, the fact that they'll get hired on and they'll look right at that director and say, we're still going to be an active member in the pool in case we can help somewhere else, you know, as well, I think, too.
00:43:26
And I think a lot of that has to do with. Because this was something completely new no one's ever done in our area. A really important part of this was transparency for us with people. Both providers and people were hiring, you know, because one of the first things when someone applies, I do like a phone screening, right. And one of the first questions I ask is, I can't guarantee you hours.
00:43:53
Are you okay with that? Right. Like, and I explained to them, like, this is. You're looking at us like a side hustle, an Uber, you know, like a Doordash, right? Like, this is meant to, like, be a supplement to income.
00:44:05
You know, it's not something you can live off of due to some of the parameters we have in it. But it is intended to allow you to help when you can help and where you can help. Right? So. And they're all like, yeah, you know, and then when we get in there, especially in the beginning, like my first couple aides that I hired on, because when we first started, I started with three kind of right away, they really did the work for the first few months.
00:44:29
And then, you know, we added a few more. And I think I was at about six aides for almost right before summer, we had six aides. And to give you some context, those six aides up until summer all worked about almost 300 shifts. The six of them, you know, which was awesome.
00:44:52
And that's the thing too. You know, they're really good about communicating with me, and they're open with me, like, at facilities, like, hey, like, we're kind of seeing this. And it's nice because then I can go back to the directors we work with, like, hey, here's some feedback I've been getting, right? And. And they're in there.
00:45:06
The director might not be in those rooms all the time and have. Well, we know they don't have the time to keep an eye on everything. Right? So I think that's been a really neat outcome as well, is that, you know, the value that our aides being in these buildings can provide, even to the directors, just from a standpoint of, like, processes, procedures, what they're seeing and being able to share that with them as an extra set of eyes, you know, I think is big. But, yeah, I think the loyalty to the program is really what's shocked me.
00:45:38
But I do think it's because, you know, I also stress that this is a team effort, right? And especially now, like, I get to share with them this guy. I'm like, hey, guys, we're doing a podcast. Hey, you know, we're. We're going to be at the CAAP conference this year.
00:45:52
Like, we did that. Like, the providers that took the chance and joined this program and trusted us with it and the aides that have hung on with us. I mean, you know, there's holiday break. There was no shifts, and, you know what I mean? And they stuck it out with us.
00:46:09
So I really do stress that this is a team effort. The amount of success we have is because everyone involved in this, you know, was willing to work for the greater good. So I think that's been a really neat outcome. I mean, and I've. I think I've said this to you, Rachelle, and if I haven't, I'm saying it now, on a recorded line, no less, is that I would love to see this grow to be a statewide program.
00:46:31
Right? Like, there's an opportunity. There's an opportunity here that, yes, hopefully a year from now, we come back and we celebrate the fact that we've made that happen. So just say that that's. That's the dream, really, here.
00:46:44
That was our goal a month after I got hired, honestly, because. Well, and here's why, you know, Rachelle said, hey, you know, there's. There's sub pools around here. And I go, okay, I'm gonna go find them. I couldn't find a one, you know, especially in Pennsylvania to this extent.
00:47:03
And really. The one that I found that it pro. Closest to kind of how we do this is Washington state, and the state runs it, you know, same setup as us. And. And I looked at her, I go, that's the end goal now.
00:47:16
You know, like, seriously, we know it's possible people, you know, are doing it. Making history in the state of Pennsylvania with these.
00:47:26
I was gonna curse, but I can't curse. Amazing women. I mean, like, we've already kind of. We've already, like, given the recipe, Right. Yeah.
00:47:35
We've already, like, given the recipe to others. Right. Lancaster CAAP, they are operational. I got a gift basket a month ago. I met with.
00:47:44
Yeah. The Community Action Partnership of Lancaster County. I met with them in February and gave them the rundown. I mean, I gave them everything. I'm like, whatever you need.
00:47:51
Documents, processes, procedures. I. You know, I met with them multiple times. We talked through. Here's.
00:47:58
Here's our referral link for the software. We'd like the discount, you know, and all of it. And I got a gift basket last month, and I'm looking at the card right now, and it says, we just want you to know we hired our first aide, and we never would have been able to do it at this speed without you being so free with the information and sharing it with us. So that's the beauty of Community Action. Right.
00:48:20
We help each other as a giant family. We're just trying to help make our communities grow in lots of ways and share successes. I think that's one of the things that was really, I think, surprising was that I sort of anticipated. Right. Coming into this role that there would be a sense of competition.
00:48:35
And I just don't. I don't feel that. Right. Everybody's so willing to help one another, and where one stops, one is willing to pick up and vice versa. And it's a beautiful thing to watch.
00:48:44
So I appreciate you all being a part of that and helping Lancaster CAAP get us started. Yep. Is this. Now, I know. I'm sure this episode is going to go out after the conference, I think.
00:48:54
Yeah. But is this a breakout session? Are you teaching at conference? It is. We are.
00:48:58
I was going to say, because if it's not, we're missing something. All right. Yeah. But don't worry, because I have. And Rachelle and I have a meeting that we're trying to schedule right now.
00:49:06
I have some ideas about, you know, other opportunities to continue to grow this across the country. So, you know, more to come from for my big idea brain that can't stop working 24 hours. And when you bring my big idea brain and his big idea brain together, then it's just like the worlds collide. And wild things happen. Something else Rachelle and I have in common is I'm the same way.
00:49:27
So, you know, it works out well for us. It's a good look. I've said this before on prior podcasts when, you know, ideation and strategy are two of your top strengths. It is a. It is a secret sauce.
00:49:38
I think it's part of what creates unicorn employees. So if you're out there and listening folks, and you do strength finders as a part of your onboarding process, and you find somebody that has those two skill sets, I would say invest in them, because they will get things done in a way that is at a wild pace and in remarkable ways, you know? Yes. And I would say that Meghann has done that for this program. A 100%. 4 months. Because I was like, four months it took us to get it operational.
00:50:05
About a year. It'll take about a year for this. And she got it done in a matter of months and, you know, was like, here you go. And it was like, awesome. So in my defense, they stuck.
00:50:15
They stuck me in a room by myself. You know, they're like, here's your office. Here's your desk. Some of your. Some of your teammates will be moving in here in a while.
00:50:23
We're getting ready to do that. And I'm like, well, I'm in here by myself. What else do I do? You know? So I think that helped.
00:50:28
Yep. So if folks are listening and you're trying to get connected to STEP, you can, of course, go to theCAAP. C A A P.org and look for STEP On Our Members page, or you can email info@thecaap.org we're happy to connect you to Rachelle and Meghann if you're, you know, interested in becoming a part of the pool and. Or a partner specifically. STEP serves Lycoming and Clinton counties and I think a part of this program also. Tioga, if I'm not mistaken.
00:50:52
Yeah, we're rolling it out to the other two counties. We're working on some funding pieces right now. It's just in Lycoming, so Clinton and Tioga, we are focusing on expanding because we have the providers and the people, but we just need some of that local investment. Cool. So more to come for the other counties.
00:51:12
But if you're specifically in, Lycoming county. Right. And you're looking to be a part of the pool, again, reach out to us. We're happy to connect you. If your organization looking to partner, let us know.
00:51:21
Anything else that you all want to share in terms of things coming, we'll talk about the RIDE program in a future episode. I think, you know, if I'm not mistaken. But anything else you all want to share with respect to this project and something that's top of mind that you're like, you know what? Listeners need to know this to give. To give you some context, like, as of the end of the August, this past month, as of August 31st, so 10 and a half months in the pool, we had a total of 485 shifts that have been posted into the pool and we filled 423 of them.
00:51:55
So we average about an 87% fill rate. I mean, we've had, I think the month of July, we hit 99. Like we've had some, you know, in the high 90s. So it's working. You know, it is successful in the terms of when you look at the data.
00:52:10
Right. We're making a huge impact with it. I think the biggest thing is this is just the beginning. And so, you know, this is just the beginning. It's about a year, one year anniversary.
00:52:21
Almost a month to the day. Yep, October 14th we launched it. Let's talk again in a year. Let's see where we're at.
00:52:29
And just really excited to be able to have the conversation. Childcare and early learning are workforce pieces that we just need to keep pushing. And this is one of the many programs that need to kind of come together to allow that to be reality of how we address this issue across our communities. Absolutely. Thank you both for coming on.
00:52:52
I know that we've kept you past our time, I think, at this point, but I appreciate digging into this project. If folks have specific questions that you want us to get answers to, happy to also facilitate that. So again, email us. Thank you so much. My fearless co host, Heather.
00:53:08
Ah, this is a wonderful conversation. Congratulations, ladies. Thank you again for taking care of our Pennsylvania residents, our children. You know, this work is so important. And for those listeners out there, listen up, take a beat, take a play from their playbook.
00:53:26
Right. Reach out to them. We're happy to share, Happy to share. Let's see if you can't sweep this across the whole state. So well done, ladies.
00:53:33
Well done. Thank you. Thank you for your time as well and drawing attention to this. We appreciate it. Of course, the first time I heard about it, I was like, Rachelle, we need to make sure, like I don't know how we're going to figure this out.
00:53:43
I think it was, was pre podcast era and now we're in podcast. So, you know, like, we're continuing to grow too to lift up the message of Community Action. But ultimately I think for the, for our listeners, I think want to make sure to share really, like these types of program experiences if you're, if you're doing something incredibly innovative. This is part of what we really wanted to drive to the podcast to lift up to the network as a means to grow and learn our organizations. And so perfect example of something that really this podcast was intended to talk about.
00:54:11
So happy to do it. Happy to spend time with everybody and thanks to all of our listeners for putting on your thinking CAAP. Catch you the next time. Bye. Thank you so much.
00:54:23
Bye.
00:54:26
Thank you for being a part of this episode of the Thinking CAAP. Check the show notes for resources and links to other episodes, and don't forget. To subscribe and follow to be notified when new episodes are released.
00:54:38
If you have any Community Action questions you'd like Beck or one of our local experts to answer in a future episode, please email your questions about Community Action to info@thecaap.org subject line Thinking CAAP.
If you have any Community Action questions you’d like Beck or one of our local experts to answer in a future episode, please email your questions about Community Action to info@thecaap.org—subject line: Thinking CAAP.