Leaning into Fear: Ellen Min on Learning, Leading, and Living
In this heartfelt episode of the Thinking CAAP podcast, co-hosts Beck Moore and Heather Holloway sit down with Ellen Min, educator, DEI leader, and passionate community-builder, for an honest, empowering conversation about what it means to lead with humanity.
Ellen shares stories from her journey as a second-generation Korean American, reflecting on the early language barriers, classroom experiences, and personal mentors that shaped her purpose-driven leadership style. From her start in education to launching a DEI council at her school, Ellen unpacks how personal connection, cultural awareness, and vulnerability are at the heart of every meaningful system of care.
They explore practical ways leaders can foster inclusion and joy in the workplace from creating personalized support systems for teams, to celebrating small wins, to embracing rest during transitions. Whether you’re navigating your own career shift or looking for new ways to lead with empathy, this episode is full of insights on how to be brave, be curious, and build belonging wherever you go.
Discover more about Ellen Min:
Website: https://www.ellenmin.me/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ellen-min/
Thinking CAAP Talking Points
[00:00] Introduction and Building Community with Ellen Min
Beck Moore and Heather Holloway introduce Ellen Min, highlighting her connection to Community Action and the podcast’s focus on leadership and personal stories.
They emphasize Ellen’s role as a valued friend and ally to the Community Action Association of Pennsylvania.
[02:23] Ellen Min’s Personal Background and Leadership Philosophy
Ellen shares her origin story as a second-generation Korean American from Philadelphia.
She discusses how her bicultural experience shapes her leadership style and her deep connection to community and family in Harrisburg, revealing her adventurous spirit and resilience.
[07:53] Embracing Fear and Growth Through Adventure
Ellen and Beck discuss their shared experiences of thrill-seeking activities like skydiving and roller coasters.
Ellen explains how seeking adventure fuels her personal growth and willingness to take risks both in life and leadership.
[09:06] Discovering CAAP and Aligning Values Through Community
Ellen recounts attending her first CAAP Summit, drawn in by friends and the summit’s unique, honest conversations.
She praises CAAP’s vibrant community and leadership, underscoring the alignment of values and the supportive environment created by Beck Moore’s team.
[11:19] From Student to Educator: Ellen Min’s Journey into Teaching
Ellen reflects on her early inspiration from a fourth-grade teacher and her upbringing in poverty.
She shares how these experiences ignited her passion for education and leadership, setting the foundation for her career and dedication to community impact.
[13:07] Overcoming Language Barriers and Early Educational Challenges
Ellen Min shares her early experience as a Korean-speaking child in an English-speaking daycare, highlighting the initial language barrier, feelings of isolation, and fear which shaped her empathy and passion for education and inclusion.
[14:54] Finding Confidence and Inspiration in Teaching
Ellen describes how a supportive teacher helped her overcome fear and self-doubt as an English language learner, sparking her desire to become a teacher and her dedication to creating safe, caring learning environments.
[15:42] Recognizing Student Needs and Starting Leadership in DEI
Ellen discusses her observations of transgender students at Commonwealth Charter Academy and how advocating for inclusive systems led to founding a Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion council, marking the start of her leadership journey in educational equity.
[23:51] Applying Teaching Insights to Leadership and Team Management
Ellen explains how her teaching experience informed her leadership style, emphasizing personalized support by understanding individual learning and communication styles to build trust, foster growth, and create inclusive, productive team environments.
[25:37] Personalized Leadership: Building Trust Through Individualized Support
Ellen details her approach to leadership involving personalized profiles for staff, incorporating personality tests and personal preferences, to tailor communication and management strategies that recognize employees as whole individuals beyond their work roles.
[27:14] Building Personal Connections to Enhance Leadership Effectiveness
Ellen Min discusses the importance of knowing personal details about staff and their loved ones to build deeper connections, using a personal learning plan (PLP) mentality to effectively lead and support employees beyond surface-level interactions.
[28:17] Simple Leadership Actions to Reduce Overwhelm and Improve Communication
Ellen advises leaders feeling overwhelmed to start small, like identifying team members’ communication styles in meetings, emphasizing incremental changes and language control to foster better dialogue and reduce miscommunication under pressure.
[31:12] Embracing Vulnerability and Self-Awareness in Leadership
Ellen shares her personal approach to managing stress and conflict by being transparent about her reactions, encouraging leaders to communicate their emotional states to teams to create understanding and readiness for productive conversations.
[33:07] Popular Personality and Communication Tools Leaders Use for Team Insights
Ellen and Beck Moore discuss favorites like StrengthsFinder, Enneagram, and Color Code, highlighting how these tools help leaders better understand themselves and their teams for improved relationships and communication.
[37:13] Applying Classroom Culture Strategies to Foster Inclusive Workplace Environments
Ellen explains how she uses classroom techniques such as emotional check-ins, creating welcoming physical spaces, and clear rubrics to cultivate a culture where team members feel seen, safe, valued, and connected in professional settings.
[40:48] Reducing Bias and Building Clear Expectations with Rubrics
Ellen Min discusses the importance of using clear rubrics in assessments and hiring to minimize bias, create transparency, and reduce anxiety. This approach supports and uplifts individuals, fostering a more objective and supportive environment both in education and the workplace.
[41:33] Celebrating Small Wins to Foster Joy in the Workplace
Ellen shares how celebrations, even small ones like losing a tooth or finishing a task, cultivate joy and community.
She emphasizes that recognizing achievements regularly helps build morale and connection among team members, encouraging a culture of appreciation and engagement.
[42:26] Effective Leadership as Facilitation and Team Engagement
Ellen highlights the value of leaders acting as facilitators rather than dominating “sage on the stage.”
She describes leadership as creating environments where everyone feels safe, valued, and engaged, enabling collective success through collaboration and shared joy.
[44:09] Enhancing Organizational Financial Transparency and Team Celebrations
Ellen reflects on integrating regular financial reviews to increase team understanding of organizational health.
She shares a story of a development director who used pom pom celebrations to visibly acknowledge new funding, boosting morale and creating shared moments of joy.
[47:54] Self-Care and Transition: Embracing Emotions and Rest During Career Change
Ellen advises allowing oneself to fully experience emotions during transitions without guilt and staying curious about those feelings.
She stresses the importance of rest as an act of resistance and self-reflection to redefine identity beyond work.
[54:20] Embracing Community Support During Career Transitions
Ellen Min discusses the importance of leaning into community for career growth, emphasizing asking for help, setting clear expectations with loved ones, and surrounding oneself with supportive people to navigate transitions successfully and find encouragement during difficult moments.
[55:17] Finding Joy and Connection Through Social Activities
Ellen shares how engaging in new activities like pickleball, volleyball, karaoke, and dancing helped her find joy and build community, highlighting the value of seeking joyful moments even during challenging times to maintain emotional well-being.
[56:23] Overcoming Guilt and Embracing Rest for Mental Wellness
Beck Moore reflects on dealing with guilt around rest and quiet time, sharing personal experiences with isolating wellness activities that allow mental space, and the challenge of truly disconnecting, underscoring the importance of balancing activity and mental quiet.
[57:32] The Story Behind Mochi: Embracing Uniqueness and Emotional Support
Ellen and Beck talk about Ellen’s unique dog Mochi, a rat terrier-chihuahua-poodle mix, sharing heartwarming stories about Mochi and Ellen’s late dog Boop, highlighting the emotional support pets provide and the joy they bring to life.
[01:00:29] Celebrating Leadership and Ways to Connect with Ellen Min
Ellen celebrates her appointment to the Pennsylvania Governor's Women’s Commission and shares how people can work with her, emphasizing collaboration, her role as adjunct faculty, and how to connect via LinkedIn
Episode 21 Transcript
00:00:00
What's up everybody? Welcome to the ThinkingCAAP. I'm Beck Moore, CEO here at Community Action Association of Pennsylvania. And of course with me is my fearless co host, Heather Holloway. Heather, Yay.
00:00:11
What's up? What's up? What's up? What's up? What's up everybody?
00:00:14
I am the avocado to your toast. I like this one. I like this one. We're gonna find it. We're gonna find one.
00:00:21
I used to be Robin and Batman. Now we need to get a new one. But anyways, Beck, back to you. So glad to be here, of course, always with a guest with Heather. I just listened back to our prior episodes, which is one of my new favorite things to do.
00:00:35
I will just say to our listeners, if you haven't checked out the latest episode, we talked with Georgia, our chief strategy officer here at CAAP and our director of operations, Erica. And I hope that what people feel is what I feel, which is just an overwhelming sense of joy with respect to the people that I get a chance to work with every single day. I laughed and cried a little bit at just how thankful I am to work with the two of them. So if you haven't listened, folks, please take a, take a listen. Sort of the peek behind the curtain of CAAP and the real discussions that we have on a day to day basis and just, you know, a little bit of the goofiness and banter that we have.
00:01:08
But I'm happy to be here today with our very next guest and exploring a little bit with, with Heather. Right. Yes. And oh my goodness gracious, we have Ellen on today. Ellen Min, central Pennsylvania native.
00:01:24
Yes. No, no. I shall tell you all the details of that, but, oh my gosh, but wait, there's more. I'm in suspense. I'm so thrilled to have her on the podcast back.
00:01:35
What were you gonna say? I was gonna say I, you know, Ellen, somebody that I've known for a long time, we're sort of on this, we were on this, this the speaking circuit of central Pennsylvania I think is the easiest way to say this. So had peripheral vision of think of each other's work and have had the opportunity to get to know her. Have become near and dear to my heart. She's an ally to Community Action, I think an ally to the work that we do within Community Action.
00:02:01
Someone that I think am certainly blessed now to call a close, dear personal friend and thankful for that opportunity to do that and excited for you to be here, friend and talk a little bit about who you are. And as somebody told me yesterday. What's your sort of origin story? I think we're all superheroes in this work. Right.
00:02:23
And so this is your origin story opportunity a little bit and to just talk a little bit about leadership. So we'd love for you to kick us off by just telling us a little bit about yourself and some perspective, I think, on what you've come to learn a little bit about CAAP and our team and how you got to know us. Absolutely. So I, I always start off by just saying that I'm a first generation Korean American woman. And I think that is something that is so important for me and kind of guides everything that I do.
00:02:55
Because I, I think the best way to describe it is I always live kind of with a foot in two different worlds in multiple ways. And so that shapes a lot of my leadership. But Heather, I'm originally born and raised in Philadelphia. Hey. Yes.
00:03:13
Actually in West Philadelphia, 63rd and Walnut, so not too far. West. It was West Philadelphia born and raised. And I found my way to the central Pennsylvania area to go to, you know, by going to Dickinson College. And so it was one evening where the beer, chicken wings and stars aligned and I sat next to who is now my husband at the Carlisle G Man. And that's how I ended up staying here.
00:03:44
I mean, he is just worth the stay. And I haven't gone back to Philly and my sisters give me a hard time. They're all still in the area. But just a little bit about myself. Like, I, I have grown to love Harrisburg City.
00:03:57
I've been a proud Harrisburg City residential. I'm here with. In the house with my husband Stan, my daughter Ada, who's obsessed with K Pop and K Pop Demon Slayers. Come on. Great movie.
00:04:10
We just watched it. Shout out to the movie. I'm a fan. So good. Sugar Pop.
00:04:16
Yes. And it just like there's. It's gonna be on repeat in my house for too long. So. And then my other daughter, the youngest, Elise, who proudly owns like the most advanced form of clip on earrings in all shapes and sizes.
00:04:33
And Mochi, my emotional support dog. And I am her emotional support creature. And also Mochi is a window into what I look like on the inside at all times. Like, like constantly anxious. But I just look calm and collected on the outside.
00:04:49
So Mochi's my inner. My inner window. But yeah, I am in the city. I love my neighborhood. I love being so connected to community, like looking out.
00:04:59
I know all my neighbors and my daughters go to the Harrisburg City school district and I love the district and all the people within it. So very, very connected to my community. And fun fact is, I'm always trying to find my next adventure to see if I'm able to feel fear because I've jumped out of a plane. I jumped, you know, off a building. I unknowingly swam in a lake in Tanzania that has crocodiles in it, and thank goodness I came out of that lake.
00:05:30
I do like zip lining, roller coasters. And I'm constantly just testing, like, I wonder if I could feel fear. So I'm always looking for my next adventure. Wow. So.
00:05:45
You don’t get that from looking at you. You don't get that. This girl’s jumping on airplanes, Beck. You know what I'm saying? Perceptions, you know, perceptions I love to explore. And, like, assumptions that we make about people when we meet them and what are they?
00:05:56
Like, I ask people, my audiences, when I speak, like, what's the music I listen to? What do I drive? What's my socioeconomic status? What kind of books do I read? Do I read books?
00:06:04
What kind of movies do I like to listen, like, watch? Like, what's my. What's my go to activity? It's always so interesting to hear what people will say based off of just very first pass. Right.
00:06:16
Like, you're standing in front of me. What do you think? Yeah. I'm giving you permission. Right.
00:06:21
Make the assumption. Write it down. If you want to tell me at the end, you can. Or you can keep it to yourself. It's up to you.
00:06:25
But. Right. One of the things I share is that I ride a Harley. And most people like, what? But jumping out of airplanes, I mean, I.
00:06:33
That I know, Ellen. So I can't. That makes sense to me based on all the things that I know. But I'm. I know that for me, my risk tolerance has certainly started to go down.
00:06:44
I am someone who used to do all of those things, but as I've crept past the 40 mark at this point in my life, I get far sweatier when I'm, you know, thinking about the roller coaster and riding, you know, Wildcat revenge for the 15th time with my children in the very front seat. And I'm like, I really love this, but I also hate it. And I'm a little bit more nervous about the heights now. Yeah. Yeah.
00:07:08
I also jumped out of a plane, Ellen, when I was 19. I probably wouldn't go today, so. Yeah. So that's really interesting. You're pushing your growth edge on fear.
00:07:19
How did we get there? Why. Why are we doing this? I don't know. I think it's just, I've always loved adventures.
00:07:26
And I. And I think there was something very odd when people like, you're not afraid? And I was like, no, I'm excited. And I was like, maybe that's a problem. Or maybe it's just me.
00:07:34
So. Maybe it’s a super power. Yeah. And that's, I think that's what allows me to try things that are a little innovative or a little bit risky when it comes to even my own personal life or career, just, like, pushing myself. And I'm comfortable being uncomfortable. Yeah.
00:07:53
Yes. And Beck, we want to get into this because you were just recognized and got a new position within the Pennsylvania government. I believe that we want to get to in a minute, but let's backtrack. Right, Beck? Yeah.
00:08:06
Origin story. How do you feel? I also, I also want to say I've also jumped out of a plane. I think it was for my 35th birthday. If I'm not mistaken.
00:08:14
There's a picture of me somewhere on Instagram that's circulating. We'll have to talk about this offline. But it was, it was a quite a terrifying experience. But I would say that my, again, for our listeners. Right.
00:08:26
Like, Ellen and I have this, you know, different type of relationship than what maybe a typical guest of ours would have, but would say that she's really, I think, chosen family of Community Action for, for me and chosen. And my chosen family as well. But I would say that you just love life, you just live life, and you want to experience life to its fullest. And that's my, that's my takeaway about why that doesn't surprise me. So I don't know if that resonates with you, but that's, that's the way I look at it.
00:08:50
Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and that's kind of like how I, I love life. And I also am really drawn, to spaces, places and people who I feel have a deep, I have a deep connection with. And that's how I found CAAP is work in the community.
00:09:06
But I attended the first CAAP Summit, and I attend a lot of summits, conferences, workshops. And I came out to this one seeing that two of my close friends and rockstar leaders were presenting. So Hattie McCarter and Esther Castillo. And I thought, okay, I want to support them. Here's a great summit.
00:09:25
But this was unlike others. There was a vibe, the content was pushing the edge into what people needed to say and hear and conversations that needed to take place. And it was such a great space with attendees who all came Together because they were ready for that. And so the first time I saw you, I know you were probably like, whoa. Because I came and I'm like, hi, so we're going to have to take a picture.
00:09:52
And. Well, I still have that picture, I know. I love it. And I think it was like friendship at first snap at first selfie, because I could just tell that we were so aligned in terms of our values. And it shows in your staff and team members when you go to an event and just the feeling and the conversations and just how restored and full you feel when you walk away from the event and you stay connected to those people. So I'm a big fan of CAAP and the spaces that you create.
00:10:24
I appreciate that. And Heather, we. I, you know, I gave a shout out to Ellen on one of our prior episodes when we talked about leadership because of what she had shared with me about the team. And was one of the very. When she shared that the first time, it was some.
00:10:36
The very first time that someone had really said that to us. And so I just, you know, I took that to heart and have said that to the team over and over again. So appreciate you, you sharing that directly here today. All right, so, Heather, kick us off with our first official, official question of the episode. Take us away.
00:10:52
Yeah. All right, so now we know that we were born and raised in West Philadelphia, and. But mom didn't say come to Central Pennsylvania. You did, and thank goodness you did. So.
00:11:02
But it looks like you started your career out teaching in Central Pennsylvania. Can you take us through sort of your journey? You know, the title of this podcast is, you know, everything I learned about leadership, I learned from teaching. So I want to know, take us back there.
00:11:19
Absolutely. And I'm sharing some photos that I put together, and for those who are listening in, I'll just kind of describe the photos as I go along. But really, my journey began in Ms. Nataloni's fourth grade class. So this is Bywood Elementary. It's Upper Darby outside of Philadelphia.
00:11:40
And you could see her on the right. She's an amazing gray suit, long hair with the great bangs from, you know, clearly representing the 90s. But Ms. Nataloni was the teacher who made me think, I want to become a teacher. And that's because I think it was. I remember the exact moment I did a report on sea otters, and I had.
00:12:03
I worked really hard on the cover and I drew a picture of a sea otter and the comments that she gave and how she pulled me aside and complimented me. And it seems Like, a very small act. But I did not. Even though I was born and raised in Philadelphia, I didn't speak English as a first language. And in these photos, you can see my grandparents raised me.
00:12:29
My father and my mother worked a lot. They worked in a fiberglass factory running bodegas. Lots of different jobs to just keep things afloat. We grew up in poverty. I actually grew up in a senior center where my grandparents were living.
00:12:48
My father begged that senior center to let us live there so that we had childcare access. So when I think back on, and I realized, I was like, oh, my gosh, there were no kids in my childhood. And it didn't dawn on me that it was a senior center till I was an adult. My father's like, that's. And I was like, no wonder my memories were filled with all of these elderly folk.
00:13:07
And it was because my grandparents took care of us and raised us. So I was only speaking Korean in the home. And the picture of me. There's a picture of me where I'm, you know, oh, gosh, I'm like, the sneakers with the dress. But I look at that photo, and that was one of the core memories I have of being sent into daycare.
00:13:28
It's called Care Bear Daycare. And that was the first moment I realized I didn't speak English because a teacher was speaking to me, and all these kids were speaking to me, and it was not the language that I heard. And I had gone from the apartment to the Korean church to the Korean supermarket. And so I have a memory of just sitting in a corner in tears and just in shock.
00:13:54
And so with all that said, when I go into a classroom like Ms. Nataloni's, and she is giving me this feeling that I can write when I struggled. And I was an English language learner. And I still remember going to an ELL class where it was a puppet named Zoe. He had no eyes, a bald head, like a big, bulbous nose, and wore a yellow raincoat and had a dog for a sidekick. I was very afraid of him.
00:14:21
I don't know why does he have no eyes?
00:14:25
But I remember being scared a lot in school and scared to learn, and I didn't really understand what was going on. And it was finally in her class where I felt like, I can write, I can read. I could go beyond what I thought I was capable of. And she provided that, not just in content, but in the way she was relational with students. And so that's why I was like, okay, I felt seen, safe, cared for, and I was loving learning.
00:14:54
And that's when I said, I want to do this. I want to become a teacher. I came home to my parents. I was like, I want to be a teacher. And so Dickinson College had an incredible program called Teachers for Tomorrow, where I was able to pay next to nothing to go to Dickinson because my parents could not afford it.
00:15:11
And it was the idea that they were bringing up the educators to go out into the community and spread their wings and fly, especially if you didn't have the opportunity to do so. So from there, I taught at Cumberland Valley, John Harris, Hershey High School, Commonwealth Charter Academy. I was everywhere, teaching high school English for 13 years. And then it was at Commonwealth Charter Academy, I realized a lot of my students were opening up to me because they found out I'm Korean. And they said, I want to go to Korea, or, I'm going to Korea.
00:15:42
I'm saving up to go to Korea to have surgery to transition. I was like, oh, interesting. And I didn't put two and two together, but I had so many students attending this cyber charter school. And I'm going to flip to the next slide here, the cyber charter school, in order to transition out of the public eye. And in that space, I was learning from my students that they said, hey, you know, you're using a name that.
00:16:10
I was wondering if you could change my name. You're using pronouns. Could you change that in the system? So that when other teachers are calling me, that's reflected. And when I was realizing the systems were not set up to support all students. Then I went to the CEO and said, hey, I'm noticing there's a lot of students.
00:16:28
I'm checking with other teachers, and there are lots of students who are currently in transition. And cyber school provides a safe way to transition out of the public eye and also to be with family and to get that care. And that's when the CEO is like, okay, we'll do something about it. You want to start a DEI council and start to educate other teachers, I will support you put together a council. And that's my first leadership journey is like, wait, you want me to do what?
00:16:56
And I thought, I don't know if I can do this. And so I leaned into my fear, and I did. And that's what kicked off my leadership journey. So in this next slide, I have on the top left is a photo of my classroom at John Harris High School. And then I have, you know, a bulletin board I made at CAA for the classroom that I had.
00:17:19
I had a sidewalk Welcoming students, and then me with pom poms when I became a head of school, because the idea of, like, oh, I've never ran a school, but now I'm going to lead a school like that fear factor. I'm like, let me lean into that. I'm afraid. But I still want to experience life. I want to see if I can lead this school.
00:17:35
And so it was that foray into leading a council and creating equitable belongings, spaces of belonging for students, that I said, I want to do that in an entire school. And then that led me to equity work, which then led me to a position of chief equity officer. And so, yeah, it was kind of baby steps that led me to that and my desire to lean into my fear to do something that was outside of. Okay, Ellen, you're going to be a high school English teacher. And to what else can you be outside of that?
00:18:06
It's so interesting to me. We have so many things that are common that, you know, some of which we've talked about and some of which we have. And I want to go back to something that you said there about one of the. That core memory of that moment in that classroom. And I'm just curious, right?
00:18:23
English is my first language, so I don't have this experience. When you think about that memory, can you. And memories are so interesting, right? Because sometimes, like, a certain smell will bring back a memory for me. You know, even, like, not even the same setting, but the smell of that room will bring back a feeling or, you know, a sensation or a person in particular.
00:18:43
And so. And sometimes I try to think about things, and I have no memory of things that I should have memory about. And that's, you know, my trauma speaking. I know that. But I'm curious, when you think about that memory, can you hear the sounds of what, you know, you didn't necessarily know what's happening?
00:18:57
Or is it the feeling of being in that corner and sort of isolating yourself because of what was happening and the lack of understanding of the language.
00:19:08
I just remember there was a teacher, a very sweet female teacher who leaned over and I forget which cartoon or which show it's from, but it sounded like her. The words were like, wamp. Charlie Brown. Charlie Brown. And I remember staring.
00:19:25
And then I have another memory of sitting in a sandbox, and there was a young student pushing a truck, a yellow truck. And I asked him, of course, I guess in Korean, like, hey, do you want to play? Can I play with you? And he looked at me and just had this look. And then the Womp.
00:19:45
Womp came out of his mouth and that. And then I listened. And I just remember it was kind of like everything was closing in. And then I found myself just in a corner. And I think I was just observing.
00:19:57
I just kept looking around. And I still remember my parents picking me up. And they said that the teacher reported that I just sat in the corner and cried all day. And I told them, why didn't you tell me?
00:20:11
Why didn't you tell me that we don't speak whatever it is that they are speaking? And it just didn't dawn on them. And they thought, oh, she'll. She'll learn. She'll jump and she'll be fine.
00:20:22
Yeah. So those are the strange snippets that I have. Thank you. Thank you for answering that. I appreciate it.
00:20:29
So I was also a teacher for a short period of time, but opposite experience to you in that I chose to become a teacher because of a really terrible example.
00:20:40
I had two really phenomenal teachers. I had this. I went to a very affluent high school and that, you know, was not one of the affluent kids that went to that school, but had the benefit of having an education, that there was interesting dynamics at place. So we had an integrated English and history class. And so as we were learning, right.
00:20:55
We were learning about, you know, we were reading night and also learning about the Holocaust at the same time, where we're reading the jungle, and we're learning about, you know, industrialization and immigration into the US Through Ellis island at the same time. And then we went to Ellis island as a part of that experience and got to, you know, walk the halls and the stairs of where so many people came through the United States. And it was a really remarkable example of what education could be following a lot of years of, you know. Previous not great experiences. And that damaged my ability to speak on stage for a very long time because of the power and privilege that teachers have in the classroom.
00:21:34
And we talk about this a lot in workplace culture conversations. And I think we have on the podcast about, right. Supervisors are in a place of privilege. And the further that we get away from the front line, the further we get away from having been managed by people, both poor managers and great managers, that impacts us. And we have to remember, right, that there's a power in being a supervisor.
00:21:59
And things that we don't think about can impact somebody's experience, both in the classroom, the things that we remember. Right. I will never forget Mrs. Craig, my eighth grade English teacher, telling me I gave the worst speech ever and then not being able to speak in front of a group of people for forever. And I still will always remember Mrs. Craig for that. And that may have meant nothing to Mrs. Craig in the moment.
00:22:22
And I also remember really, you know, poor examples of leadership and in management. And so I say all of that to just say, I recognize that you created a space for your kiddos. You created a safe space in your classroom that people, they trusted you. And I know you've done the same thing in organizations that you've. You've worked within.
00:22:39
And I appreciate that so much about you, which is one of the reasons I also wanted you to be here to speak to our listeners about just so many different things.
00:22:50
So to get to my next question then, one of the things that we talk about a lot at CAAP in professional development, which is a core part of what we do, is the diversity of learning styles, diversity of points in career that we're supporting people because we have people who are brand new to positions, we have people who are brand new to Community Action, we have people who are maybe brand new to human services. And so we try to create experiences in the learning that we deliver through the lens of having been a teacher previously. And many of our CAAP staff were also teachers in a prior life, which helps us to be thoughtful about those layering of services. So with that in mind, how did the diversity of the learning styles that you were really adapting to on a really everyday basis, what your education taught you about how to be a teacher, what was important, how did that shape your approach to managing then different personalities and work styles in the work that you've done?
00:23:51
I love this one because it's this idea that as a leader, you have to decenter yourself and you have to completely remove yourself in order to make sure that you are really taking care of the people you are leading. So you have to flex your style to bring out the best in each individual students. Those team members below you, same thing. Like no two students are in the same way. Same goes for team members.
00:24:20
So in the classroom, I loved that we had a very extensive and robust file on each student that traveled with them, their learning profile. And if they were, you know, transferred from one school to the next, you always asked for those learning profiles to come along with the student. And so I could look at the file and I will see their learning styles. I will see if that student was struggling with certain unexpected behaviors and if there were things that activated those behaviors and how best to support them.
00:24:57
Ways that hopefully in a good school district, ways that people have supported those students through unexpected behaviors and not just expulsion detentions, like whatever, we don't want all of that as well. But then you learn about family background, there's notes from other teachers about what really worked and what helped that student. And I think, how can we create this file for each team member as a manager, as a supervisor, as a leader. And so when I stepped into leadership, I thought, this is what I want to do. Like a personalized learning plan, like a PLP, but for employees.
00:25:37
So even if it's at the kickoff ceremony for when I was the head of school, I asked all my teachers, like, let's, it was fun. Let's do these different personality tests, learning style tests, how you communicate, like something easy like the color code. And not only did we do that for fun, to get to know each other, as for team building, but I had it printed and I made sure that I did a lot of work to say what about my color and personality style and communication style rubs up against this individual and what meshes well with this individual. And I had to decenter myself. So whenever there was a hard conversation or even a one on one goal check in, I would take out that teacher's file and take a look at it and say, okay, so this person will receive the information best in this way.
00:26:35
And also in the file, I take lots of notes too, is that I would ask teachers to fill out a form to let me know their favorite things. What salty snacks? Yeah, we talked about this. What sweet snack? What beverage?
00:26:49
What do you like to do for fun? And it gives me like an insight into them as a whole human being outside of what I'm extracting in terms of what they're doing for the organization, it's like, I want to know about you as a human. And then the more I learn and the more they're vulnerable and open up to me about things outside of what they do in the classroom, I make sure I take mental notes. So. And we do this with students.
00:27:14
Like, I had a really hard day with mom. The next day check in like, hey, how was yesterday? Did you and mom work that out? Same thing with staff members. You check in, you ask, you make it a point to know the names of pets and kids and cousins and aunts.
00:27:32
And when something is revealed to you that is precious and that was given to you as a gift and you put it away in the mental or like physical file. And to make sure that whenever there is an opportunity to lead, you get as much of that whole person in front of you as you lead. So that's, that's been so helpful is making sure that I, I keep that PLP, Personal Learning Plan mentality for all of my staff and employees. I love this so much. You know, Beck, you taught me the, you know, the favorite flavors and stuff so that we, we put that in Holloway media services.
00:28:10
So we have a little spreadsheet. You know, birthday, anniversary, kid's birthday. What do you love? What, what don't you like? All that. And it's, it's really helpful.
00:28:17
Come time for a work anniversary or a birthday. But what would you say to a manager listening or a leader right now, or an executive that's sitting here stressed out, overwhelmed, burnt out, and we're like, oh, we need to remember more things now. I love that you said, you know, print out and have a file. And the other thing that's coming to me is, you know, we're not leading every single second of every single day.
00:28:41
So to have this PLP, we can pull it out in those, in those particular moments. But going back to the question, what would you say to somebody, a leader that's maybe overwhelmed or exhausted right now, maybe doesn't have capacity for this. Just one small, one small thing you can do. So if you say maybe at our next team meeting, we just identify a communication style, because that's huge. I think the miscommunications happen so much.
00:29:09
Or even me when I, running a school was not. There was not a lot of time. But also having common language like, hey. So making sure that when we're about to have a tough conversation, I always start with language to get to know the person and their communication style. Like I would start with, like, if you can't gather information from your staff, maybe you can just with yourself.
00:29:36
So whenever you're going to have a conversation to say, hey, you know, so the narrative that I have or this is the story I'm telling myself, if it's a tough conversation, here's what I'm noticing. I would love to see if you can revise that for me. So being overwhelmed but, but taking control of the language that you use, that you can open up dialogue and conversation to hear the other person to see if there was a miscommunication. And also starting with one small thing like maybe at the next meeting we'll just say, hey, everyone, I would love to do this small thing to understand your communication style and then tuck that away. But you don't have to know all of the things.
00:30:17
It's a little bit each step. Well, I think to that end, one of the things that, you know, I know we've, we've talked about before, Ellen, is the small incremental change creates large change. And so you take, you know, you're going to take when you, when you speak, when I speak about these topics, right? You're going to pick one thing, just pick one thing to implement just one thing, have the list of all the other things that spoke to you as you're listening, but just write one thing, implement that in this period of time, and then maybe six months later, you implement another thing. And what you, I believe, truly what you will find is you're going to start to see change then in your interactions, but you've got to make some change to create a difference.
00:30:59
And if you're overwhelmed consistently, there's something there that has to change in order to change the overwhelming. Right. It's not going to just change on its own. That's not going to happen. So we've got to shift something.
00:31:12
So what's the small thing? The other question that I've thought about this a lot in how I want to explore more workplace culture presentations is the idea of trying to figure out, going back to this idea of the PLP, right? How do I show up when I'm under pressure or I'm overwhelmed, or I have conflict and understanding that about people, because for me, I shut down. I shut down hard. I'm not going to be responsive, particularly if you come at me hard.
00:31:41
If I'm already overwhelmed, I'm going to shut down. I'm going to process how I feel, and then I'm going to ask you to speak about it. And you may not be in your, at your best place place, you know, for you to receive what I need to say. But you know, that is absolutely childhood trauma that's going to show up in that way that I just, don't yell at me, don't come at me hard. I'm going to shut down hard.
00:32:04
And that question, I think right now, particularly at a time in human services, which most of our listeners are in that field, the pressure that we feel with funding changes, with shifts in how we have to manage our programs and all of those things, particularly as leaders, I think we also need to be able to effectively say to our teams, if you see me in this way, this is how I'm showing up, you need to understand that it's not a reflection of you. It's a reflection of I'm under a lot of pressure and we have to be vulnerable to say that so that our team understands whether or not we're ready to work through something as well. Because just like I want to give people space to make sure that they're in the right headspace to hear something that I need to say that might be right hard for them to hear, I also need to make sure that they know that I am either not or am in the right headspace to receive or share back or talk through something. And we just. We forget that.
00:32:59
Right. It's all human. I think what you're talking about is human based approach.
00:33:07
I'm curious if there's a particular favorite that you have. I know, Heather, we've talked about what you've gone through with your team at Holloway. But favorite sort of like personality, communication, style. Mine is strength finders. That's one of my jams.
00:33:22
Which, what's your. What's the one that resonates with you the most? Any in particular? Top two.
00:33:29
I really liked Enneagram. I knew you were going to say that. I knew that it was in my brain. I'm going to do that one. Enneagram.
00:33:35
I liked color code because it was very simple. That's what I would start with. It was very simple. So those were the two that I. I've used to understand. Even just my personal relationships.
00:33:50
Yeah, I'm curious too. Beck. Sorry to jump in on top of this. So we talked about color code, Enneagram, but I'm gonna take a guess here that you're an avid reader. True.
00:34:04
Yeah. Because some of the things that you're saying, like the story that I'm telling myself and some things that you're saying sounds like it's influenced from some pretty cool books and some pretty cool current teachers. Who do you read right now? Like, I'm thinking Brene Brown. Like, who are you reading right now?
00:34:18
Who. Who helps you influence your leadership? Oh my gosh. See, that's a tough question right now because I wasn't prepared for this one. Okay, so. Or top.
00:34:31
Top 10 books. The Book of Awakening is something that I'm looking at right now. And I love that Jamie Lee Curtis did the foreword for it. So that I've been reading a lot because I think right now I'm in a place where I'm. I'm in a place of restoring myself.
00:34:49
And so more than leadership, it's to make sure that whatever I take on next, that I am full, restored, healed and ready. So Book of Awakening, I have a whole. Like, I have all my workbooks here. Oh, like Thich Nhat Hanh, trying to be more mindful.
00:35:12
Oh, this is good. Peace is Every Step. I'm doing a little bit of a workbook. Your Body is not an Apology. So I'm doing a lot of learning more about myself and pushing myself to be ready for whatever is coming next. And here's another one that I've been working through some more workbooks.
00:35:32
Nice. Healing Through Words. So more reading. It's more doing and thinking and processing and healing. And now I have five more books to put on my Amazon list, my audible list. Okay, Beck. No, I just want to, I want to just.
00:35:43
I want to say tell and I. This was one of the questions I was going to ask later, but I'm going to say it now. I think one of the things that I really appreciate about you is this, you know, you in some of the hard conversations that we've had about things that are going on in our personal lives and you've said to me like, have you taken the time to really process this and understand how you feel about it? And I just, I appreciate that so much about you because I'm not good at doing that because it's just, you know, life is too fast and too crazy most days or I'd say it is. And I don't take the moment to figure out, particularly in personal, in, in work,
00:36:15
work. I'm good at it. And I was saying this to somebody yesterday, I was like, you know, when I think about the priorities of my life, I often think about work as the top layer of priorities. And so then that's how I prioritize how I deal with things. And personal life is equally as important.
00:36:31
But I don't take as much time as I should to process those things. So I appreciate that you are very good at processing how you're feeling, what you're doing to think about those things. It's, it's not, it's not as, as easy for me at most days. But I love that you gut check it. So just going to give you that to receive however you will.
00:36:56
To use a Heatherism. Love it. So let's talk a little bit more about how then classroom culture sort of influenced the way that you build team culture a little bit more. So you talked about kind of that individual relationship piece. Let's talk about the whole then.
00:37:13
And anything you want to lift up about the crossover from classroom to work, work. Yeah, I absolutely use everything I've used in a classroom, anytime I bring in into a workspace, whether I'm facilitating a meeting for a volunteer group or if in a leadership position. Just any space I come into, like, just like a classroom where students want to feel seen, safe and valued. That's everyone. We all want to feel seen, safe, valued, connected to the people, connected to whatever the task is, whether it's mission oriented, project oriented.
00:37:54
And so the way I build that is always human first. So whatever space we're in, I always do a check in. Sometimes I'll use visual. Sometimes I'll do a simple like, are you putting your hands, like up to your forehead? For are you high capacity filled?
00:38:11
If you put your hands by your nose, you're kind of middle underneath the chins, you're depleted. I like to always ask, I don't know what happened right before you came into this meeting. What happened last night, in the morning, this week, week, this month, getting a check in just so that you know how people are coming in. And again, you decenter yourself as the leader and say, if there are 10 out of 12 people with their hands underneath their chins saying, I'm completely depleted. Then I'm like, so this meeting's coming to an end and we can always wait.
00:38:40
So the work will be there. We're gonna, we're canceling the meeting. Go take care of yourself. I will find another time. Because that check in is like whatever the work is, it doesn't matter if your people are not coming into the space ready to go.
00:38:53
And if there's something that's happening, if they want to share or not. Like, it's not about you and the thing you want to get done. It's not about extracting from people. And I think that's, that's the value of a leader. So I do check ins, if it's a physical space.
00:39:07
I think about when I walked into the one of the school that I led and I saw so many blank walls. And so I'm like, okay, my first project, I'm going to, as soon as people enter, put welcome in different languages. I want to hire muralists to make interactive art so that if a student was struggling with an unexpected behavior, they're not walking past all these blank walls. There was muralists that would say, circle. Put your hand on the wall and circle five times.
00:39:38
Smell this mural flower, you know, give a high five. I, I had a vision of putting like a bike wheel on a spoke so that it's like, spin this thing 10 times. So even a physical space, I think about if I'm holding a meeting or if I'm putting together a workshop. When people walk in, what will they see? How will they feel?
00:40:03
So that is all about culture too is how do you come in feeling seen, safe and valued in that physical space. Then I, I'm a big fan of rubrics. So when I, as a teacher, there's, it's just clear as kind, clear expectations. So students know exactly what the assignment is. It's outlined with lots of details and then a rubric of how they're going to be assessed.
00:40:31
And there's so many things that I notice in, in organizations where I'm like, where's. Why are we? You're having someone apply for this grant and then you're saying whether they got it or not. And people are still unsure as to why or why not. If there's a rubric or for a performance evaluation.
00:40:48
Here's what you have in terms of goals and how I'm going to assess you. I just think the idea of rubrics, even when you're hiring someone, the hiring process, like even the phone conversation, there should be very clear rubrics so that bias doesn't fall in. Like there's so many biases that will come. You're not an awful human being. It just is.
00:41:11
So I constantly think we have to be very clear about expectations and what folks are being assessed on and it creates less anxiety. And I think it's a two way relationship then because it's not about you and your subjectivity, it's about supporting and uplifting those individuals. Classroom celebrations. Oh my gosh. We celebrated everything.
00:41:33
I loved it. You know, somebody lost a tooth. Oh my gosh. The best is like at the school, everybody wanted their tooth to fall. They're like, mom, dad, I want my tooth to fall out.
00:41:42
At school, because you came down, everyone in the office were like, a tooth came out. You get a necklace with a tooth in it, you hold the tooth. My son's school does this and I love it. Yeah, that's awesome. It's amazing.
00:41:55
Where are the celebrations in the workplace? We're here to experience joy together. We're walking every home together. Let's. Let's do this.
00:42:01
I love that. So in the workplace, everyone's like, we're really going to celebrate that we just finished. I'm like, absolutely even, you know, the smallest things that we've accomplished as a team. It's time to go celebrate. Or it's time to go to that spreadsheet and look at the sweet and salty snack and do a kudos to someone that's very small but meaningful.
00:42:23
And to celebrate.
00:42:26
I just say, like a lot of teachers say there are some teachers who are the sage on the stage, they say, oh, this is my runway and it's all about me. And I'm speaking and I'm speaking and I'm speaking and I'm speaking. If you walk into a classroom and the teacher is barely speaking, then that is an effective teacher. They are facilitating, they are centering the learners, the employees. They're the cruise ship director.
00:42:50
You know, they're the ones who are making sure that everyone is interacting, engaged, joyful, valued, safe, able to put their hair down and really like, roll their sleeves up and get involved. And I think as a leader, like that was my thing is I can't be the sage on the stage. I have to be the person who's working the magic behind the scenes and everyone is thriving and everyone is doing well. And I wasn't the one taking up space. Gosh, I wish I could have been in your classroom.
00:43:22
It wasn't that perfect. It sounds really great because I also had some pretty bad, you know, teachers and, and managers I was cursed at, you know, but all this, all this I took and I was like, if I ever become a leader, yeah, I will not do that. So I was able to say, you know, nah, not my style. Yeah, I love the celebration of joy. I used to have a.
00:43:46
There was a fund development, development director at an organization I worked at for a while. And prior to her getting there, there was not, you know, we were raising dollars, but it was not nearly as robust as what this team made it end up being. And when she first started, there was a pretty big turnover in the leadership team at that point. So new CEO, new fund development director, communications person. Right.
00:44:09
And we talked a lot about how we built in opportunities for the greater team, the whole team across the organization, to better understand the financials of the organization. Right. Like, what's the push-pull? What's the most important critical piece? And in a lot of organizations, there's.
00:44:23
There is no talk about the P and L, right? So if you don't know and don't understand what the critical funding is that supports the organization, how do you know what to pay attention to? Right? And so that was one of the things that we talked a lot about. And so then it got to this point where we were did regular financial reviews of the organization, regular financial health review of the organization, which ended up growing my capacity and a lot of other, you know, middle management folks to understand more about the financial health of the organization.
00:44:50
And then the other thing that she did is every time we got a new grant or a funding, a check in the mail. She had pom poms. And she would run through the office with her pom poms. Legit. Like, yeah, it didn't even matter if you're in a meeting or not. Your door was open and there was pom pom moment.
00:45:07
You were getting the pom pom moment whether you wanted it or not. And eventually, like, everybody had a pom pom and it just grew and grew and it sort of became this joke. But I'll never forget that. That shift and just what, you know, it was something we needed to celebrate as an organization because it was a huge shift in how dollars we were receiving, the increase in funding that we were receiving. And it just.
00:45:31
It. We've got to figure out these ways. Right.
00:45:35
Of creating those moments of celebration. And I think one of the things we also talked about on one of the last episodes is also figuring out who your cheerleaders are. Like, who has woo on your team? For us, it's Mel Luckenbaugh.
00:45:49
Shout out to Mel who has high woo. Before Mel came on, we really didn't have many people who had high woo. And I said this on the last episode. I'll say it again, right. Like, we would share good news, and it was just like a sad trombone.
00:45:58
It was just. And it wasn't it just because it wasn't. It's not in the nature of that group of team at the time to be like, yeah. And so for me to have the highest woo in the room is. I don't want, you know, I can have woo, but it was just.
00:46:13
It would fall flat. Right. So it's been helpful to see Mel be the person to create the celebration moments because she's thinks about them differently than I do. And so that's part of what her kind of task is a lot of times is to bring the woo.
00:46:32
I love that. I'll have to connect with her because I did strength finders with one organization and I was the only one that had high woo. And everyone's like, what is that? I don't understand it. Like, I need to find someone else with woo. So I will connect with Mel.
00:46:48
Like, well, we're woo sisters. Yes, well. And woo is interesting because it's not just about. Right. Like celebration.
00:46:55
It's also this interesting ability to create joy for others. And I think that's the part of woo that people don't often understand enough about. It's not just about, like, she's always going to be the person just like, woo! Literally, woo. But then there's also this other, I think unsung part of it that helps to create the rest of the team. It carries the woo through the rest of the team. Yeah. Which is a cool, a cool thing to see.
00:47:22
All right, Heather, do you have another question? No, I think we've said a lot here. I think maybe another question or a final question would be how do you. And we kind of touched upon this a little bit, but we do talk about a lot of well being and stress reduction and that's the platform that I stand on. So what do you do to relieve the pressure maybe when it can feel just a little too heavy on your shoulders?
00:47:54
I take lots of walks with my dog Mochi along the riverfront. And I do that not only because she and I process well with walking. Now I'm speaking for Mochi, but I feel like when she's overly anxious, I'm like, we gotta go for a walk.
00:48:12
But I get to see like be connected to nature while living in the city. So I love seeing the river change from the winter, the chunks of ice to the flowers that grow, the people. We don't know each other's names, but we see each other. Like I know the. If I go running in the morning, I know like the 7am people versus the 7pm folks.
00:48:37
I love walking around the neighborhood and saying hello to everyone who's out on their steps, out on their porches. I love to see the decorations change. I just love being connected to the space and the people who are just directly in front of me. And so if it seems like the world is literally, literally and figuratively on fire and there's so much that I'm overwhelmed with, that walk really grounds me because it connects me to the people right in front of me. And as a leader, like there's so many times that I would do that same for my mental health.
00:49:10
I'm like, I'm going to leave this office. I'm going to go visit the preschoolers. Like, what are we doing? We're playing with Play-Dough.
00:49:17
Like, let me play. And there was just. They would teach me how to have fun and find joy any time of the day. And so that's me is just that well being is get out and be present with the people in space just directly in front of you. Love that.
00:49:38
And community. And what was that? And community like, I'm all about community. And one of my happiest places, it's called HAAPI is Harrisburg Asian American Pacific Islanders.
00:49:49
It's just a very organic community that was built on the idea of finding belonging, joy, and community with one another. And it's just, let's get together and eat. Let's get together and roller skate. Let's get together and whatever, play, be with each other and connect and talk about things where there's parts of our identity that might not be seen other ways. This is a space that I could bring that out.
00:50:14
So that community aspect is so important. Get in where you fit in. It's true. Yeah. I lived in midtown for a little while in Harrisburg and loved.
00:50:24
I don't think we give the Riverwalk enough credit for what it is in Harrisburg. It is a really beautiful place that, honestly, the sunsets are always pretty spectacular. So if you've not been to downtown Harrisburg and experience that would encourage you to, you know, take a little bit of a walk. It is a. It's a great spot.
00:50:43
It was one of my most favorite things about being downtown for that short period of time. Magical. Yeah, it really is. Yep. You have the water, the trees.
00:50:53
Beautiful. So I have two more things that I want to lift up before we wrap up then. And if I may, I would love to ask you the question. So I know that you're transitioning from one role potentially to another, and I just want to ask the question for folks who maybe are about ready to think about a transition in their career or are about to take ready to leap or find themselves ready to start something new potentially. Any advice that you might give to people or things that you want to lift up for those that might be listening.
00:51:23
Yeah. So I would say during this time period, I gave myself a lot of grace. So whatever I was feeling in the moment, I allowed myself to feel that. So I didn't deny any emotions. I didn't label them.
00:51:35
There's no good or bad emotions. I would feel emotions. And I would give myself as I wonder, and I would stay curious. Like, why am I feeling this? Even if it was leading to me wanting to be like, fetal position on the couch, doing some couch rotting, maybe some crying, some binge eating, some cheese curls till my fingers turned orange.
00:51:55
Like, I. There was no guilt or shame. Like, maybe not peaceful walking with Mochi, but I'm like, Mochi, we're gonna go rage walk. I'm like, just let myself feel the feelings and then stay curious. So that way I didn't bury anything.
00:52:12
I didn't pour more shame on myself. I just moved through the emotions, and that was really, really helpful. And then I leaned into. I am not a good rester. I'm constantly like, there's a term in Korean. My husband has said.
00:52:29
He's like, I know the term for quickly. Pali. He's like, everyone's pali, pali, pali, pali. I hear so much from everyone, especially in Korea, even from your parents who are retired, like pali, pali. He's like, why quickly? He's like, what's the word for slowly?
00:52:41
I was like, it's cheoncheonhi. He's like, I have never heard that ever from you or from your family because it's like this. Yeah, go, go, go mentality. What an interesting thing.
00:52:51
So I learned how to rest as an act of resistance because I realized that all I knew was, all I realized that a lot of what I was doing was leaning into my identity connected to a paycheck. And I was so used to the, the culture of extraction, like extracting my skills and extracting what I can do towards. I don't know if it's goals or a mission or whatever. And so I thought, what does it look like? And what.
00:53:32
Who am I when. When I am not being extracted and when my identity is not tied to a transactional paycheck. And so I listened to an incredible podcast by Michelle Mijong Kim.
00:53:49
I'm gonna forget the title of it, but it was basically like who am I without my job and what I do? And it was incredibly helpful and it really reframed what I was going to do during this time of transition. And I know that's a, that is a privilege because I know sometimes rest is not an option, but I try to lean into as much rest as possible and self processing. And then last, if you're in transition, like of course there's, there's job searches and looking and networking. I didn't more of that.
00:54:20
I wanted to lean into these three things. The next thing was community. So I had to remind my husband. I was like, you are not the person I'm going to go to to talk about what the next step in my career will be. Don't take offense, but what I do want you to do is I want you to encourage me.
00:54:38
And when I come home and if I'm and I'm feeling defeated or if I'm going through some emotions that are difficult, just love on me and be encouraging. But then I knew the people I would go to to say I need to pick your brain about this thing or can you please help me with looking at my resume? So I have all these amazing people and their superpowers. And I was very clear about, hey, I'm going through this transition and I would really love for you to support me in this way. I'm terrible at asking for help, but I started doing that and I started leaning into my community and people were so eager to help and were honored that I asked.
00:55:17
And I'll just add one more. Find joy. So I like learned how to play pickleball and I started hanging out with friends playing pickleball. It was one night, like set up a volleyball net and dragged my kids out and some friends down. We played volleyball.
00:55:32
I tried to get you out, Beck, but I went and sang karaoke. I went dancing. Oh, no, I get an invite next time. Yeah, I feel like I'm high on the woo scale. I'm with you.
00:55:45
I'm not allowed to play. I'm not allowed to play volleyball for the record, because that's how I tore my ACL a year ago. But most if I, if I'm available, you know, I'm going to be there. Yeah. And there's so many things that I said.
00:55:57
Even if I was feeling really crummy, I was like, I am going, I'm going to try this new thing and be in community because that's what I needed and to find joyful moments. And so even in that, that sometimes icky spots, I was able to come out and say, no, I'm going to find joy in these moments. And I'm so glad that I did. I appreciate the vulnerability to answer that question. Just appreciate you, you sharing all of those things.
00:56:23
I think it's important for people to hear that. So I appreciate you answering and just want to acknowledge you certainly didn't have to. And I just say that out loud. I know for me, periods of rest are hard for me too. It's, There's a feeling of guilt.
00:56:37
Right. About, you know, I go fishing. I try. It's one of the things that really helps to disconnect my brain. It's.
00:56:42
And a lot of the things that I do for my quiet time, wellness opportunities, there're things that are isolating activities. Right. Because I need to be, I need to quiet doesn't necessarily mean the activity like I ride my motorcycle, that's not quiet. But it's, it's. I'm by myself in my thoughts.
00:56:59
My wife sometimes will ride with me. But generally it's something that I'm just focused on the task at hand. But what I found recently when I go fishing is one, my son wants to come with me, which means it's not quiet. And secondly, that it's I'm starting to run through the tasks in my head, which means that I'm not doing enough of something to balance the quietness in my brain. And so I don't know if that resonates with you, but the guilt sometimes is what overpowers the ability to break, to go do something.
00:57:32
I have one more very important question for you that I don't know the answer to. What type of dog is Mochi? I don't know this. Inquiring minds want to know. Yeah, we need to see a picture of
00:57:42
Mochi. We made it up. She's a rat choodle. Oh, yes, I did know this. Yes, I do remember asking this now.
00:57:49
Yes. Rat terrier, chihuahua, mini poodle. So we're like, we'll call her a rat choodle. And I love her. Even though when I brought her home, my one neighbor came out and said, are you sure that's a dog?
00:58:04
Like, yes. It's like, I. I think someone scammed you and sold you a furry rat. I like that. She looks like she's been through some stuff. I had.
00:58:19
I had a Chihuahua that. Her name was Boop. And she was, when she passed. She was 17 years old. And she.
00:58:25
She was a blue Chihuahua. She's gray. She barely had any fur, a heart murmur, no teeth. And similarly, like, she had been a dog that had been bred for a long time. So she had some other things that were problematic for her.
00:58:35
But poor girl. Like, she was my. She was my emotional support, and I was hers. She's my. I used to call her my little hot water bottle, just, you know, cuddle her up at night.
00:58:45
But she had been through some things. Too, and that's the thing. And I love, like, what I. I love hearing young kids when they walk by, because they'll point at Mochi and go, mom, look, it's. And then I love to hear her, like, fill in the blank, because one time I heard it's a fox, and I was like, it's not a fox, but I guess you could, like, mom, what is that? Like, So I just love when kids ask the adult they're with and ask a question very loudly, because I'm so curious.
00:59:12
I'm like, what do they think Mochi is? Or what would they say to, like, I don't know if it's cute or ugly. I'm like, I think that on a regular. So.
00:59:21
That's awesome. Listen, if you're. If you're listening, we will post a photo of Mochi on CAAP Social, because Mochi needs to be the mascot or something we need to see. Yes. You know, Mochi might have an appearance on some.
00:59:32
Some swag. I'm just saying, like, she may become she. Wait, I don't know. Mochi's pronouns she, so, you know, she might become an icon for the CAAP podcast. I'm just.
00:59:44
I'm just saying, you know, Mochi, fame is about to come your way. Hopefully. Happy to manifest that for you. And that's what I am on the inside. That's my soul.
00:59:54
Constantly anxious, like, at the door, like, what's going on? What's going on? That's why I have a giant tattoo of Boop on my leg. Because that she's first of all. She's always with me then.
01:00:03
And that's. That's how I feel on the inside, similarly. So, yeah, we have that in common. Boop was. Boop was my.
01:00:09
What is it? My spirit animal, I think.
01:00:13
May she rest in peace. Well, look, I really appreciate this episode for you taking the time out of your wild schedule. I know. And just speaking about all of the things. I know that this will resonate with a lot of folks and just I appreciate you so much.
01:00:29
Is there anything else that you want to share at all to say? I want to celebrate your appointment to the women's commission, the Governor's Women's Commission for Pennsylvania. Absolutely no finer pick. I'm very, very excited to do some meaningful and impactful work and just to be in the orbit of so many incredible leaders in the community all across the state. So I think I will, just by osmosis, gain more superpowers.
01:00:58
Amazing. I love to have you there. Now, I know you're an adjunct professor, adjunct faculty for Elizabethtown College, but where else? How else can people work with you? Oh, my gosh.
01:01:14
Find you on LinkedIn. Email. You can find. You can find me on LinkedIn. Email me.
01:01:21
I have a website, but yeah, there's. There's so many people who reach out. I am. I am a bridge builder, collaborator. Anytime there's an opportunity to partner and get together and put our minds together, I'm there for it.
01:01:34
Great. We'll put all that in the. In the link below. Absolutely. And I will just say to our listeners that if you want to connect with Ellen, please email info@theCAAP.org caap.org and we're happy to connect you.
01:01:45
She's a great speaker about a lot of different topics. So if you are interested in getting connected with her, you can always reach out to us if you can't find her. And we'll make sure to connect a great connector to other people. So thank you again. I appreciate you Ellen.
01:01:58
Happy to see you soon. And Heather, thank you for being my avocado to my toast as always. You got it. It's easy. We're spreading it like butter.
01:02:06
Ellen, this was amazing. Thank you for leading in the way that you do and showing us how to do it. Thank you. Thank you to our listeners for joining this episode of the podcast and stay tuned for next time. Find us again on the Thinking CAAP.
If you have any Community Action questions you’d like Beck or one of our local experts to answer in a future episode, please email your questions about Community Action to info@thecaap.org—subject line: Thinking CAAP.