"Today Was Fun!" Rethinking Workplace Culture with Bree Groff
In this energizing (20th!) episode of the Thinking CAAP podcast, co-hosts Beck Moore and Heather Holloway welcome Bree Groff, author of Today Was Fun and workplace culture expert, for a fresh take on what it really means to enjoy your work.
Together, they explore how joy, authenticity, and psychological safety aren’t luxuries, but essentials for engaged and effective teams. Bree shares insights from her book and keynote experience, exploring the small yet powerful changes leaders can make to foster more human and connected workplaces, whether you're remote, hybrid, or in-person.
From emotional check-ins and “user manuals” to themed karaoke and redefining how we measure success, this episode is packed with practical tools and thoughtful reframes. You’ll walk away with renewed permission to embrace fun at work, lead with authenticity, and prioritize well-being because people doing impact work deserve joy too.
Discover more about Bree Groff:
Website: https://www.breegroff.com/home
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bree_groff/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bree-groff/
Thinking CAAP Talking Points
[00:00] - Introduction and Podcast Background with Beck Moore
Beck Moore introduces the 20th episode of the Thinking CAAP podcast, sharing its origin and mission to provide flexible learning for Community Action professionals.
He highlights the upcoming 2025 conference keynote with Bree Groff, thanking listeners and encouraging guest suggestions.
[01:49] - Welcoming Bree Groff and Exploring Joy and Fun at Work
Beck Moore and co-host Heather Holloway introduce Bree Groff, workplace culture expert and author of "Today Was Fun."
They discuss the importance of joy and happiness in the workplace and tease Bree’s upcoming keynote at the 2025 conference in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.
[06:02] - Redefining Work: Moving Beyond Drudgery and Passion
Bree Groff contrasts common views on work, from seeing it as drudgery to an all-consuming passion.
She advocates for a balanced third way where work is fundamentally fun, creating value and connection without overwhelming personal life or expectations.
[08:12] - The Joys and Challenges of Writing a Book on Workplace Fun
Bree shares her experience writing her book, emphasizing the fulfillment of self-expression and the community of like-minded friends she connected with.
She discusses writing as immersive therapy and the importance of authenticity and turning pages for readers.
[11:01] - Cultivating Fun and Psychological Safety in Workplace Culture
Bree Groff discusses workplace culture’s impact on fun, addressing barriers like workplace PTSD and leadership support.
[13:13] - Embracing Authenticity and Fun at Work
Beck Moore and Bree Groff discuss the importance of feeling comfortable being oneself at work, sharing ideas and humor.
They emphasize starting small to break professional barriers and foster openness for a more enjoyable and human workplace culture.
[14:19] - Defining “Today Was Fun” as a Workplace Metric
Bree Groff explains the book title "Today Was Fun" as a simple, human metric for workplace satisfaction.
She highlights that most workdays should be enjoyable, balancing meaningful tasks with moments of joy to create a fulfilling work experience.
[18:02] - Choosing Joy and Owning Your Workday Experience
Bree stresses that joy at work is a choice and encourages ownership of one’s daily experience.
She introduces stoic principles like amor fati to help navigate stress, reminding listeners that mindset and small actions can make work more enjoyable despite challenges.
[21:29] - Creating Connection and Fun in Remote and Hybrid Work
The hosts share strategies for fostering fun and connection in remote or hybrid teams, including planned “peak moments” like themed karaoke.
They highlight that emotional closeness can thrive despite physical distance, enhancing team culture and engagement.
[25:12] - Overcoming Busyness and Conformity to Unlock Brilliance
Bree Groff critiques the focus on busyness and conformity, advocating instead for effectiveness and psychological safety.
Trusting teams that prioritize human connection drive higher performance and innovation, rather than rushing through agendas and suppressing.
[26:42] - The Critical Role of Psychological Safety in the Workplace
Beck Moore and Bree Groff emphasize that psychological safety is the number one trait employees seek at work.
They discuss how trust and engagement drive performance and highlight the importance of creating environments where employees can be authentic and vulnerable to foster trust.
[28:09] - Simple Practices to Build Trust and Connection Among Teams
The hosts share practical exercises, such as daily check-ins, where team members rate their feelings and share brief updates.
This fosters psychological safety by encouraging authentic communication and listening, countering the trend of efficiency-driven, superficial interactions in business settings.
[30:45] - Amplifying Joy to Enhance Team Engagement and Well-Being
Bree Groff discusses the power of focusing on joyful moments during team meetings.
Identifying and multiplying sources of joy helps individuals and teams thrive by balancing strengths with happiness, ultimately creating a more positive and productive workplace culture.
[34:25] - Leadership’s Role in Modeling Authenticity and Human Connection
Beck Moore highlights how leaders who show their authentic selves and care about employees’ well-being create environments where everyone feels safe to be human.
This top-down approach fosters trust and fun, which are prerequisites for true engagement and effectiveness.
[37:40] - Using Personal User Manuals to Deepen Team Understanding and Support
Bree Groff introduces the concept of “user manuals,” where team members share personal preferences and working styles.
This simple tool enhances empathy, supports individual needs, and builds stronger team connections, complementing other personalized tools.
[38:57] - Accelerating Team Connection with Personalized User Manuals
Bree Groff introduces the concept of a "user manual" for team members, a one-page document where individuals share how they work, their values, and how to support them during stress, accelerating trust and understanding within teams.
[43:08] - Writing a Business Book That’s Engaging and Practical
Bree shares her approach to writing a business book filled with snackable stories, tools, and QR-coded resources designed for easy, practical use, emphasizing a conversational tone and joy to make leadership content accessible and enjoyable.
[44:58] - Balancing Serious Leadership Lessons with Fun and Joy
Bree explains her intent to combine serious leadership principles with fun elements like profanity, humor, and even a crossword puzzle to encourage readers to find joy and pleasure in their work and lives.
[47:37] - The Importance of Prioritizing Joy and Self-Care in Impact Work
Bree emphasizes that people working in impact organizations deserve to enjoy their lives fully, advocating for self-care as a fundamental human right rather than just a prerequisite for helping others.
[50:01] - Closing Remarks and Resources for Conference Attendees
The conversation wraps up with information on how listeners can access Bree Groff’s book and resources before the conference, highlighting the book’s authentic voice and joyful approach to leadership and work culture.
As always, email any questions, feedback, or thoughtful questions to info@thecaap.org so we can hear from you!
Episode 20 Transcript: “Today was Fun!” Rethinking Workplace Culture with Bree Groff
00:00:00
What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Thinking CAAP. I'm Beck Moore, CEO of Community Action Association of Pennsylvania. Really excited for today's episode because it marks our 20th episode officially of the Thinking CAAP. This was a podcast that was an idea that was born from Amanda Hoprich and I, talking one night about just things that we wanted to do, things that would be helpful for the network of Community Action professionals across the state of Pennsylvania and, frankly, beyond across the country.
00:00:27
And it was this idea about how could we offer something that was flexible, something that offered learning. When people were driving to and from work, we know that you're not just sitting at your computer every single day. You're driving in your car to maybe a home visit or to a funding visit or just maybe you're driving to our conference right now. And we wanted something that could provide just some more conversation, some more depth, and really showcase the remarkable work that's happening across Community Action and Breeng new leaders, new thinkers to our network to introduce them to some amazing people. And so couldn't be more pleased that this particular episode is our 20th with Bree Groff, who's going to be our keynote at this year's conference in 2025 in October.
00:01:12
We want to thank you to our listeners. We've talked to so many incredible people. We've explored big ideas about community leadership and action, and we couldn't have done it without you listening to all of these great episodes. Thank you for being a part of this journey with us. And here's to the next 20.
00:01:28
Don't forget, if you have a suggested guest, a great idea, please send it to us at the Info@TheThinkingCAAP or Info@TheCAAP.org We want to hear from you, we want to connect with you, and we want another 20 episodes. 100 episodes. Thanks, everybody. And without further ado, here's our next episode.
00:01:49
What's up, everybody? Welcome to the Thinking CAAP. I'm Beck Moore, CEO at Community Action Association of Pennsylvania. With me, my fearless co host, Heather from Heather Holloway Media Services. What's up, Heather?
00:01:59
Hey, what's up, party people? Yeah, it's Heather Holloway with Holloway Media Services. So thrilled to be here. This is gonna be so much fun, this episode, because we're talking about one of my favorite subjects, and that's joy and happiness. Well, and literally, you know, our speaker is here to talk about a book that she wrote, talking about work as fun.
00:02:19
So we're going to get into it in just a second. But before we do that, Heather, just want to ask, anything exciting brewing? Any Shameless promotions you want to do anything going on. I know you just launched a new website so you know, I'm here. Here's your platform friend.
00:02:31
Talk about it. Oh, gosh. Well, thank you so very much. Yeah, I will take it. Yes.
00:02:34
So the heatherholloway.com everybody says, oh, Heather, I need a little bit of your energy. I want a dose of Heather. Well, when now you can get it. Heatherhalloway.com and also if there's any executive leaders out there, I talk about stress and resilience and Breenging, you know, just like we're going to talk with our guest here in just a second. But you know, Breenging more fun back into the work work field force and seeing how we can do that.
00:02:56
So yeah. Heatherhallaway.com Beck, thank you so much. And on the reverse, what's Caap promoting right now? Yeah, we're super busy in conference planning mode, which is part of why we're here to talk with Bree today in trying to give everybody a little bit of a sneak peek about upcoming conference end of October. So Octo 27th through the 29th, I think are the official dates.
00:03:14
We're going to be back in Lancaster at the Eden Resort and Suites and have a really amazing time with all of our agencies. We've got some scholarships that we're providing this year thanks to our partners at the Department of Community and Economic Development. So I know right now troubling times with trying to find funding and we're trying to really make sure to remove some of those barriers so we still get people to participate because we know now more than ever people want to be spending time together. Right. As we talked about Heather in a couple of different episodes, filling our cup.
00:03:41
Even though I've lost mine somewhere in my house, it's filled with something I probably shouldn't talk about on this podcast, but at some point I know I have it. But really the conference gives us that opportunity to just spend time together, making sure that people feel like they're not alone. So excited about the planning for that we just kicked off today a really, I think amazing project to better understand the local economic impact of Community Action across the state of Pennsylvania, working with some researchers from Penn State. So stay tuned for that network of Community Action folks who are in Pennsylvania excited to be able to showcase that in some way, shape or form back at conference, but with all that in mind. Right to kind of in our back pockets.
00:04:20
Excited to be here to talk with Bree and give our listeners a little bit of a sneak peek for our conference and our keynote. Oh, my gosh. We have an amazing guest today, Bree Groff. She is a workplace culture expert and author of Today Was Fun, a book about work. Seriously, she spent her career guiding C suite leaders at companies such as Microsoft, Google, Pfizer, Calvin Klein.
00:04:44
Did you get to work with Marky Mark? We'll get to that. Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center. Through periods of complex change. She is a senior advisor to the global consultancy SY Partners, previously served as the CEO of Noble Collective, and she holds an Ms.
00:05:00
In in Learning and Organizational Change from Northwestern University. Bree lives in New York City with her husband and daughter. Bree, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. Thanks for having me. Okay.
00:05:14
You two have such fun energy. I think I would just like to hang around you two all day. I imagine you have some fun at work. Yeah, absolutely, we do. As a matter of fact, that's part of why we wanted Heather to help co host and why we do this podcast because we genuinely love, like, spending time together and have fun.
00:05:30
So hopefully our listeners feel that. I said in our last episode that we just launched, which has, you know, one of your prior colleagues, Georgia Delfre Obre, who you all got to meet in, I think, your master's program, if I'm not mistaken. And, you know, listening back to that episode, I laughed, I cried. I mean, just the energy that our team has, it's just. It's good to love where you work and love what you do.
00:05:54
Yeah. Which isn't normally the case, Bree. I mean, can you talk to us a little bit about that? Yes. Yeah.
00:06:02
So normally when I say, like, oh, I wrote a book about fun at work, a lot of times it's like, oh, does not. Does not compute. So. And a lot of times I'll hear sort of two ends of the spectrum of people's orientations to work. There's.
00:06:18
On one end of the spectrum, work is called work for a reason. We show up, we get our paycheck. That's just the state of the world. And I understand that that feels just honest to a lot of people, but I think we've given up too soon. On the other end of the spectrum, you'll also hear, like, work is do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life.
00:06:44
Make work your passion. And for some people, they do that and, like, awesome. But also one that's a super high bar. So if you're waking up and thinking, like, oh, am I living my life's work and my calling? And you don't Feel like you're meeting the bar, like, that can be stressful.
00:07:05
And also sometimes when we, even when we feel like, oh, we love our work, we can overwork. Because now if we're pursuing some sort of calling, like, why aren't I doing it all the time? Like, I should be maximizing the time I. I spend there. So I spend my time thinking about what is potentially a third way, where work is not drudgery. But also work doesn't take everything from us such that we lose our cups to fill in the first place.
00:07:37
But what's some sort of middle ground where work is actually just fundamentally fun. It's fun to create value. It's fun to support other people. It's fun to build with people that we like. It.
00:07:49
Work can be a great way to spend our Breef days on this planet. And so that's what I think a lot about. So as an aspiring author, I'm curious about this next question in that it's, you know, in the process of. I'm in the process of writing a book right now, and it is quite the labor of love. Yeah.
00:08:12
And I find myself sort of pausing at different times and both loving and hating what I've written. But what do you, what do you love the most about what you've created? Oh my gosh, that's such a fun question.
00:08:28
Two things, and they're both kind of the wrong answer. So the right answer to why you write a book is like, oh, for. And especially for an impact audience, like, the right answer is like, I did it for the impact. For to change lives. And also, like, that's been super fulfilling.
00:08:46
Don't get me wrong, when people send messages of like, this meant so much to me. And it changed, like, that's been amazing. But also there were two bits of the process that lit me up in a way that I didn't really know how much they'd mean to me. One was simply the self expression of it. Like, the art of it.
00:09:06
Because I spent so much time in consulting where I'm really trying to help the client say what they want to say. I'm trying to manifest their vision. I've worked in corporate environments, professional environments for so long, you sort of get in your head about like, oh, I should sort of say these kinds of things. And. But when you're writing a book, I had someone tell me the things you would only whisper to a friend.
00:09:33
That's what you put in your book. Like, you got to say the quiet part out loud. And that makes a good book. So the Self expression of it. Like, that felt great.
00:09:42
Like, I've been wanting to say these things for years. And then the second part, honestly, is the Friends. Like, some days I'm like, wait, did I write a book just for the friends? Like, all the people I've gotten to meet through podcasts or events or other authors, Just this amazing community of thinkers and dreamers, people who are hoping to make the world a better place, who come from a place of imagination. So the friends have been cool, too.
00:10:13
Yeah. And they also say, too Beck, like, you write the book that you need to read. Yeah. Is that what they say? Yeah.
00:10:19
Yeah. I mean, I have a book coach, Right. And she said, really? What's going to make them turn the page? And if you wouldn't turn the page for your own book, then, you know, what's the thing that's going to make you turn the page?
00:10:29
And you have to be really thoughtful about that. And that's. I don't know if you felt this way, but I feel like right now it's a little bit like immersive therapy. Right. Like, I'm unpacking all of these things.
00:10:39
And regardless of if it's, you know what, I would qualify as kind of a leadership book about how to lead this in some way, shape or form. Whether you're the CEO or a frontline staff member or whatever it is that you do with an organization, it's about, I think, leading with joy. It's about trying to own. Everybody owns a piece of workplace culture within their organization. How do you influence that?
00:11:01
What are the ways you can do it? Whether you're at the top, somewhere in the middle, or right at the. At the very beginning stages of your career. And one of the things that I think we don't really talk a lot about is workplace ptsd. Right.
00:11:15
And how that shows up and how then we show up in order to be able to have fun. So it's like, I want to have fun, but can I do? I really think that my leader completely embraces what I think of this. Right. As fun.
00:11:29
And does that. Do I not give myself permission? Like, what's the thing that's stopping? And I'm sure in some of your consulting work, you know, you've unboxed that with. With companies and organizations to influence how to create the space for people to.
00:11:42
To really show up in that way. Yeah. And it is different in different cultures. And I totally get that some cultures feel more safe for fun and humanity than others do. And not even just the fun that is like the Happy hour or we're joking around.
00:12:04
But also the sort of fun where like, oh, we can propose really bold new ideas and try and make them a reality. We can sort of like push the boundaries of our industry. Like that's also sort of fun. And yeah, there's definitely organizations and industries that are a little bit more like got their shirts tucked in real tight, you know, and. Exactly right.
00:12:30
Got their top button buttoned all the way to the top. And in those it's always just. I always see it as a matter of can you push it 10% and see if anything bad happens. So even if you like have to be in a suit all day, can you wear a fun sock? You know, even in a super formal meeting, can you crack like totally safe for work silly joke and see if like you get any side eye or if it doesn't feel safe to have fun like within the larger organization, like maybe you just have a work bestie or like a couple people that you can DM and be yourself with.
00:13:13
The greatest thing would be we all feel comfortable being just who we are at work and sharing our best ideas and enjoying a laugh and that have. That put us at risk of side eye. But there's always small places to start to sort of like crack that professional exterior and sort of open people up a little bit. Yeah, absolutely. And we'll.
00:13:37
I think we'll get into some of those, those things in just a little bit here. So when I think about the title of the book, Today was Fun. Right. It's a phrase that we often don't necessarily hear about work as you speak about and you know, in the first few chapters in particular. So for you.
00:13:53
Right. I think let's talk a little bit about what it really means and what do you hope people take away from the title and. Or. Right. Why.
00:14:01
Why pick up the book? I know why I picked up the book, but. Oh well, we got to hear that too. Yeah. Because frankly, some people see the enormous neon smiley face and are like, this is not look like a book that I would normally read about work.
00:14:19
To which I respond, that's kind of the point. But anyway, yeah, so the, the phrase today was fun. It's the simplest metric that I can think of and most human metric for are we doing a good job in our organizations most days. So I should say the chapter one is titled Most Work. Most days should be fun.
00:14:41
Like I'm not at all about the optimization perfection, but if we're not enjoying ourselves most days, that means most days of our lives. 5, 7 of each week we're not enjoying ourselves. And I think that's a big problem.
00:15:02
At its best, when I think about what fun looks like at work, there's. We can make the work itself function like, work is steak. It's delicious, it's juicy. I'm looking forward to it. Ignore this.
00:15:17
If you're vegan, but you get the idea, or maybe you're at a role or in an organization where your work is broccoli. Like, you do it because it's good for you or your bank account, you sort of feel like you have to get through it. Then your strategy is, put some cheese on the broccoli. That looks a little bit more like, I'm going to have little moments of joy throughout my day. I'm going to do my day sort of like the office style, like the sitcom where we're selling paper, but at least we're having a good time with each other while we're doing it.
00:15:53
So there's so many different ways to have fun at work. In addition to the fact that for some people, the work, like doing the work itself, creating what the operations plans, the marketing plans, going out to the field, like that is fun, but that's not the only way to have fun at work. It could also be like, oh, I really hate the work itself, but I love mentoring. And so my direct reports might those people Breeng me joy. Or like, none of that is fun, but I actually really love learning and growth.
00:16:22
So there's just. There's so many ways to diversify our joy at work that I think it's possible for anybody, no matter the situation, to find some good in their days. So to your question, I guess, like, why would someone pick up the book? I would hope because the book will help you have better days, they'll help you love your days and also treat them with respect. So often we think of our days as the input into an organization's bottom line.
00:16:49
Or if not a bottom line, like, I'm the input to this impact. Right. Like, I'm the human resource. And I'm trying to sort of correct that narrative to say, like, no, you also are a human who gets to enjoy your days on the planet, too. You're not just the resour.
00:17:06
Yeah, I think that's the core of what I know. You know, both Heather and I speak about workplace culture and sort of. Right. Like, you know, how to create those types of environments for ourselves. How do we give grace back to people?
00:17:15
And I think that's part of the framework that we talk about. Like, we Are all humans who are trying to human. So life be life, and yet, like, we somehow forget about that. Then when people walk through the. The workplace and say, you know, through the door, and they're like, you know, you got to check all of this and focus on the things.
00:17:30
But when the work is already so in the work that Community Action does. Right. It's incredibly hard and incredibly layered. And so trying to find the time that we don't take ourselves as seriously and find joy so that the hard moments don't feel as hard because we're together. Right.
00:17:47
And we're doing it together is really hypercritical. Heather, you were going to say something. Yeah, well, I was just going to build on top of that, the work that we're doing together and how much. How much time we're spending at work. I just did a quick little Google search.
00:18:02
We spend about a third of our lives, almost 90,000 hours over a lifetime in work. In work. So that could be about 13 years of your life. Yeah. Being upset for 13 years or finding the joy in it.
00:18:20
Yeah. Is it. So here's the question, Bree. Is it a choice? Is joy a choice?
00:18:28
A thousand percent. And this is not to make anyone feel bad. Like, the whole book is judgment free, just to be helpful. So, like, if someone's having a bad time, the last thing I want to do is shame them for having a bad time. Now, you feel bad about the fact that you're having a bad time, but the.
00:18:48
The message is that we are always. We always own our own days. And it can sometimes feel like, no, my days, my weekdays don't belong to me. They belong to the organization or they belong to the people that I'm serving. Like, I'm.
00:19:02
Again, I'm just here as a resource. But that's. It's not true. You still get to be responsible for your own experience of the day. And there's all sorts of ways to sort of take control over what that day looks like and also your mindset around it, too.
00:19:22
There's a lot of stoicism in the book. A whole chapter about what do we do when work is stressful and not going our way and how do we deal with it. And for those listening who don't know much about stoicism, it sort of gets a bad rap. It sounds like, oh, I'm not expressing any of my emotions or I'm suppressing them, but it's really not. It.
00:19:39
It's, what do we do with our emotions when we have them? And so there's a concept, a stoicism concept called amor fati, or to love your fate. So not just endure the hard times, but how can you decide, like, oh, well, if this is what's going to be happening in my life or in my work, what are some ways to love it? I don't know. So maybe some policies or something is getting messed up in your work and so you can't proceed on a certain project.
00:20:12
That could be so frustrating. And I could believe that it is. And is there a way to say, oh, I actually have a few free days now where I can't make progress on that, but there's something else I always wanted to do? So I think in many ways it is a mindset. And, you know, I mentioned the show the Office a lot because they show there was nothing meaningful or purposeful about paper sales.
00:20:41
But still, what they proved through that show was that work is fun. If we make it that way, if we choose to make work fun, it will be fun. And so even if you're not the CEO, even if just you and a few people around you and your local team, that's just sort of like a shared head nod, like, do we just want to make it a little bit more fun? Yeah, let's do it. And that could look like anything, like a little high five when you finish some report that you have to do.
00:21:09
You know, there's so much joy that's on offer if we just stop and take it. I love that joy on offer all the time. Yeah, I was reading this morning to kind of remind myself of a couple things that I wanted to make sure to Breeng up. And one of the things that I love that you talk about is, right, this sort of decision about whether or not you're going to be remote or not remote. And some of the influence on that.
00:21:29
And so for CAAP, as our listeners know, as we've talked about, we see each other collectively twice a year. Otherwise, we work across the state of Pennsylvania. It's, you know, we, we have finite resources, and so we, frankly, we can't afford to just get together. Right. And so we try to figure out ways of weaving in the fun when we are together, whether that's in a little plastic box on a screen, right.
00:21:49
Or in person. And then we also try to be really thoughtful as an association. And so kind of, again, back to the point of this, a little bit of a sneak peek for conference is that we really try to create what we call peak moments in the experience, because that's what people remember. Right. I could have a great Conference with good content and good food and just, you know, whatever.
00:22:07
Ho hum. People are going to remember that though. So what is, what's like the peak fun moment? So this year, for instance, you know, last year we had karaoke. This year we're doing Halloween based karaoke.
00:22:16
So a little bit of costume party, you know, on one of the first nights. Because why the heck not? It's Halloween. Like you want to come in a costume. Awesome.
00:22:25
If you don't, that's okay too. There might be a little bit of judgment for me inside, but I'm not going to tell you that until later. But I think those, those moments, right. It's. We just can't take ourselves too seriously sometimes.
00:22:37
And I think we forget that there are global companies that work remotely all the time and nobody's that complicated that you can't figure out some better balance of in person, virtual something. I appreciate that. For those of you who are in human services that are listening. Right. Yes.
00:22:54
There is some work that you have to be present for. I get that. I understand that. I'm not naive to that. You have to be tied to a desk sometimes, but.
00:23:02
Right. Everybody has capacity to create an environment in which this can exist, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Some of my closest project teams were during the pandemic when we were 100% remote.
00:23:18
Because I'll often say physical distance does not imply emotional distance. Yes. That's the line I wrote down. Oh, amazing. I literally wrote it down in my notes.
00:23:27
You read my notes? No way. Okay. I'm glad I also quoted myself correctly. Sometimes I'm like, wait, what did I.
00:23:32
What was that thing? Yeah, it's. It's totally because it's so much more a matter of like the emotional vibes, for lack of a more academic term of like, can we show up and be ourselves? Is it okay if the dog barks in the background? Do we take a few minutes at the top of a meeting just to be like, hey, how are you?
00:23:58
Which is such a fundamental human activity to greet someone and ask how they are. And yet it's like the first thing that gets squeezed out of meetings when people are busy. Like, okay, jump right into the agenda.
00:24:14
It's totally possible. Well, I know it's possible to feel very close as a team while remote. And then as you say, like when you do get in person, like, have yourself the Halloween karaoke party. Because I think so often we're nervous about being judged. Oh.
00:24:28
Like this isn't professional. What are people gonna think? But deep down everybody wants to have fun. Everyone wants to be invited to the fun party. So if one person, or at least the conference host can organize that, it says it sends a message to everyone else that, like, oh, this is.
00:24:46
We can be professional and Breelliant and impactful and sing Halloween karaoke. Like, those things can coexist. That's awesome, because. I'm sorry, Beck. No, no, go ahead, Bree.
00:24:59
I was gonna say, can fun and professionalism exist? And you just beautifully showcased how it can. And, Beck, I'm so jealous I'm not gonna be at conference because I love and I love Halloween. It's true. But going.
00:25:12
Going back to this really quickly. We talked about busyness, right? Like, getting into the agenda, get into the meeting. Let's go. We got.
00:25:19
We got to grind it out, because so often our worth is, what did we do today? So, you know, why are busyness and conformity killing this Breelliance, this Breelliant work? And then what can we do about this? Yeah. So we have to remember the goal is not to have an efficient organization.
00:25:40
The goal is to have an effective organization, which really fundamentally, I think, shifts the way that we think about the work. Because you can do tons of work really quickly, but it could be the wrong work. Everyone could be miserable. It could be the right work, but you're doing it the wrong way. So when I talk about busyness and conformity, I think of these are the things that are threats, I guess, to doing Breelliant, impactful, and human work.
00:26:15
Yeah. Like so. And on the meeting topic, like, it's. I understand the instinct to go quickly. Like, we only have so many hours a day.
00:26:23
We got to get into it. Go, go, go. But also, having a trusting team is having a high performing, like, and there's so much research and data about, like, trusting teams drive performance. Psychological safety drives performance. Like, that's.
00:26:42
I mean, it's been studied so much, it's, like, almost not worth questioning anymore. But the question is. But yet people are still questioning it. To be clear, I mean, number of times I say over and over and over again, number one trait that people are looking for in a workplace right now is psychological safety. I have it on repeat and every presentation I do.
00:26:58
And you're like, oh, yes, that's. That's so true. But we're still talking about it. We're still trying to have to prove it somehow. And I'm sorry to step on your there, but I just need to say that out loud.
00:27:08
Oh, my God. I know. I think the problem is I'm getting bored of saying it.
00:27:14
I'm like, I've Been doing this so long. Can you just get up? But yes, I agree. I agree. And so it is.
00:27:22
It's worth making sure we're all on the same page, that engagement and trust does drive performance. So then we have to ask ourselves, like, well, how are you? How are you building trust? And at a very fundamental. Like, we're still humans as much as we try to make ourselves robots during the day, but, like, one we don't need to be.
00:27:42
AI is here. Let AI be the robots. Let the humans be the humans. And what humans need is they need to know each other before they can like or trust each other. It's just like.
00:27:54
It's just like human psychology. Right? And so at the very basic. We just need to know some things about who the person is across from us and how they're doing that day. So I often advocate for this exercise.
00:28:09
It's like the check in. It's a very. It's just like a formal way to say, how are you? But it's, how's everybody doing today? Scale of one to five, put it on your hands.
00:28:17
Three, two, one, go. I'm a two, I'm a four. And then 30 seconds, you run around the room and say how you are. I've been using this practice for over a decade. There's, like, lots of research to support psychological safety and cognitive offloading and all of these things.
00:28:33
But at the heart of it, it's just asking people how they are and listening, which for some reason has become so like, anti business or anti, like efficiency that we don't. Blows my mind. We're just texting. It's short form. Well, and I think that part of what we've, I think, talked about in a couple other episodes at some point, or maybe I'm confusing a presentation that I've done.
00:28:57
But I think that idea, right, If I. If I can't unpack and like, recognize out loud. I brought this weight into this meeting with me today. You may not have known, right, about the 35 things that have happened. And I don't feel like I can say the 35 things that happened before I stepped into the Zoom Room.
00:29:14
You know, I can't be effective. I'm carrying some form of anxiety because I can't share. Right. So that's going to make me less effective in the workplace. Right.
00:29:22
There's a million other things that that's going to create for me in how I show up. And so when you start to. And we've talked about this, Heather, right? Like, can't just put trust on a T shirt or on a sign and expect everybody to trust each other. That anything it, I think, derails trust a lot of times because of mistrust that already exists that you don't even know people have.
00:29:41
And so what are the. What are the building blocks to trust? Where are you starting as an organization? And I think there are pieces of what you. You certainly talk about, Bree, that embed those moments of creating some of the trust.
00:29:55
One of the things that I really love that you talked about was and it's something we actually do with our kids at dinner time. And we grew up in, you know, fairly chaotic homes, my wife and I, and yet we still found ourselves sitting at dinner every night. And so it's something at the table. Right. It was one of the things that we did as a family.
00:30:11
And so it's something that we've, you know, has been really important to us and we want to try to reinstall in our kids. We don't eat in front of the television. I'm not judging anybody who does, by the way. This is just me, my personal preference here. But we go around the table and everybody has to share on the nights that we're together what was everybody's favorite part of their day and what, you know, I was watching a real, or, I don't know, a video about it.
00:30:31
And what that sort of unpacks psychologically. Right. Is that you start to look for the good moment that you want to share. Then we start to look for the good moments. And so one of the pieces in the book that you talk about is asking people the moment that they were having the most joy.
00:30:45
I love that as a check in activity or just something to regularly embed within a team meeting. But I don't know if you want to talk more about that at all. But I love that moment in the book. Sure. Yeah.
00:30:57
Something I called spot and multiply your joy. Because you're right, it's easy to miss all the joys in our lives. Right. We're moving from one thing to the next. Like how often do we like, scarf down a sandwich and then you're like, oh wait, what did that even tastes like?
00:31:14
I don't know. Right. It's like we've anesthetized ourselves because we're moving so quickly and attending to the urgent over the beautiful in our lives. So I think the question is important, like, because if we are looking out for what's joyful in my day, not only do you then get to enjoy that joy, but then you can Raise the question of like, how do I get some more of it? How do I multiply it?
00:31:39
And I think it's a great question in a team, particularly because different people will find different things joyful. And that's also helpful to know. So, you know, in a consulting team, like I really love like client interactions. Like that feels really fun and inviting. And then like a fellow partner may not.
00:31:59
So it's like, oh great, okay, I'll do most of the leading. The client calls somebody else on the team might love. I don't know, like the customer interviews or employee interviews that we do. Like, great. Like also so often we have a focus on like, what's the growth and what's the edge and how are you pushing yourself.
00:32:19
But sometimes the question should just be like, what makes you happy and what are you good at? And also like a lot of times what you're good at makes you happy. And so I think there's. We really undervalue playing in position both in terms of our strengths and our joys. Like, how do we just help each other have a good day and then also don't forget to bank it.
00:32:43
When you do find that joy, like it's like leaving hundred dollar bills on the ground. Pick it up. If you are in a really amazing conversation, recognize that and say, how cool is my life right now?
00:33:01
Yeah, it's there for you. Well, I want to say one last thing, Heather, and I'll be quiet for a second, is that I think one of the things you go on to say there is look at the pattern, see the, see the repeat, see where they share joy. Because then I think that gives you insight into say, okay, here's what's really resonating. How do we create more of it? Right?
00:33:18
Yeah. How do I duplicate the best strength based leadership is my love language. So you're speaking my love language. Heather, you were going to say something else. Yeah.
00:33:27
So just so many gems here, Bree. Like I, I teach a concept. You know, what you focus on expands. So if we focus on the good, we're going to expand that good. You want more joy.
00:33:37
Like you said, keep receipts or become aware in the moment when you're, you're like, this is awesome. You know, like, you know, give yourself that. Right. So what you focus on expands. But I want to know fun, top down, down, up, who can Breeng the fun.
00:33:54
Is it a leadership thing? Is it a team member thing? Well, it's ideally a leadership thing. And if it's not a leadership thing, well, then it can be an individual Thing, the best case scenario is that you have a leader who believes it's worthwhile for employees to have good days. And beyond just employee engagement drives performance, which it does.
00:34:25
But also just like a leader who genuinely believes I'm working with people I care about and I would like for their days to be good and ergo, their lives to be good. Like, you know, so that's at its best. And especially if that leader can show up in all their humanity, like Beck, I see this in you, like, all over the place. Like, we came on today and you're like, I need a haircut. My hair looks like I am a Q tip.
00:34:54
Yeah, right. Like, it was just so human. We heard all about, like, your variations on your beard. Like. Like, it's just.
00:35:04
It's just so very human. Like, you've got a head and there's hair that grows on it. Like, what is more human than that? Right. I am shocked.
00:35:13
Yes. And. But it creates an environment for everyone else to also be humans who have heads with maybe hair, unless you're bald, in which case, you know, you're welcome to all the. So that's the ideal, right? Like, top down.
00:35:30
We value our days because they're our days. And also we show up as a human, which is the prerequisite to any kind of fun. It's very hard to enjoy yourself if you don't feel like yourself first. Amen. Amen to that.
00:35:45
I mean, a million percent over. And I will just say that, you know, when I was making the choice of where to go next in my career, I think that was for me, so paramount is that I wanted to make sure that I was in a place that I could show up as the best version of myself, which meant unburdening of all of the, you know, workplace ptsd, being able to share authentically about who I was or if I was having a bad morning with my kids because they just wouldn't put their darn shoes on. And our house is, you know, layered with lots of ability complications and, you know, different. Different abilities. And so that.
00:36:17
That means some days that they're just really bad days. And I'm. My team knows that I'm not coming. But the ability to be vulnerable and know that it wasn't judged for that vulnerability. And I also created that space for the team.
00:36:26
Like, I don't. To be the best version of myself. I had to unpack all of that in order to create a place where the team felt. And so thank you for saying that because that's so much a part of what I'm trying to do every single day for everybody. I had a team member on a team meeting call on Monday that said, we just got the first time to actually meet.
00:36:46
We've been working together now, I think, for, like, four months, and we've been in zoom rooms and on calls and all the things, but hadn't had a chance to meet in person. And she said to the team, I just have to stop and say, like, Beck, you are the most authentic person, whether it's in a zoom room or in person. Like, who you show up as a zoom person is the same person I met on your front porch when I gave her tickets to a concert that somebody had given us. And that was, like, the biggest, nicest compliment that I think I may have ever received in my life, because it's so part of how I'm trying to live my life today. You are living your life.
00:37:17
Yes. Yes. Thank you for that. Yes. Acknowledge.
00:37:19
Yes. So thank you for that, Bree. I appreciate it very much. Yeah. I mean, in spades.
00:37:25
You are just. Yeah. You are unapologetically yourself, and I just want that for everybody. Yeah. I want to ask one other question, if I can, about one of the tactical things that you talk about, and it's similar to something we talk about.
00:37:40
Heather. We've talked about favorites before, and, Right. Like that we capture our team's favorites, and that way it informs, you know, somebody's having a good day. If somebody's going through a transition, it's a simple way to recognize them. So it's, you know, helps me to know my team's coffee order.
00:37:52
If I'm having a bad day. Somebody's having a bad day, I can send them their favorite candy. It's just a way to do, like, simple little pickups. Right. Or just say, like, hey, just thinking of you, but you.
00:38:03
Kind of a similar concept is that you talk about this idea of. What is it called? The. The personal manual, I think. User manual.
00:38:10
User manual, yes. User manual. Thank you. I'm curious if. How.
00:38:17
If you've implemented. If you've worked with organizations to implement this and you've seen any sort of reaction to it, but if you can talk a little bit about what the user manual is for our listeners, because I think it's a very similar idea to the favorites piece. It's like another way to get to know us. So if you can kind of talk to our folks about that and what that means. I love this idea and tactic.
00:38:38
Yeah. User manuals go well 100% of the time. When I use them with teams and clients. So I actually got the practice back from grad school when Georgia and I probably learned about your colleague at the same time. So it goes like this.
00:38:57
It's essentially and literally a document where everybody on the team gets one page, and on that page is a series of questions that that team member would answer about themselves and how they work. So some of the questions are. I mean, you can make up your own, but I have a template. People can download, download the people and animals most important to me in my life. It's amazing how long you can work with someone before they're like, oh, yeah, I have a brother.
00:39:30
You're like, oh, my God, it's been years. I didn't know that about you. Sort of basic level, people and animals, important to you, what you value in a team, how somebody can help if you're stressed or stuck. Other questions like how I deal with change. A great day at work to me looks like blank.
00:39:52
What I'm trying to get better at at work, joys or commitments for me outside of work. So you can mix and match these questions, but the idea is, can we accelerate the period of getting to know who someone is and how they work faster than, like, oh, I've been on Zoom meetings with them for three years, and I'm just now realizing when they're upset, upset, and I bombard them with questions, they don't like that. So I call it a user manual. It's sort of like a cheeky term because it's like you get a blender where you're like, what do all these buttons do? It's like, well, just look at the user manual.
00:40:33
There's a quick start guide. Well, why can't people just come with the same? So, for example, when I'm stressed out, I want someone to talk me through it. I'm very much a verbal processor, so I put in mine when I'm stressed or stuck. You can ask me, like, tell me all about it.
00:40:49
Let's talk it through. And that is the exact wrong advice for many other people who, when they're stressed or stuck, they're like, leave me alone. Like, I need space. Do not come near me. That's so annoying that you're asking me.
00:41:02
All these questions if you work with a processor. Right. Wrong approach. Right. Like, the person needs to process.
00:41:06
I don't know what. I don't know how I feel about it. Exactly. So why can't we just share those things up front and. And get to know somebody?
00:41:16
So the exercise just goes like you can when I do with clients or project teams to kick off any new project, we create the template, everybody fills theirs in, and then we go around the room or zoom room and one by one people, if you have time, you share all your answers, or you share a few of the answers and then read them later.
00:41:37
And it's just a way to feel seen and to see other people. And you could totally do questions like, what's your favorite candy? Optionally, what's your birthday? In case people want to say Happy birthday. If anyone does want a template, there's one on my website.
00:41:53
It's Breegroff.com usermanuals and you can download one. It is. One of my favorite things about the book is the QR codes that are sort of woven throughout. So shout out to. If that was your idea, kudos to you.
00:42:06
If it was your editor's idea. I don't know whose, but Breelliant idea, because I think for me, one of the things that really resonates me in a. In a leadership book, in particular, a book that's similar to yours that I would say, like, where your book belongs on the bookshelf. Right. Is that kind of topic, theme, whatever.
00:42:21
And I hate when there's not the tactical specific things, like, I don't need to know the whole big picture. Right. Like, yes, okay, I get it. What do I. How do I facilitate this in my own organization?
00:42:32
You've talked about it, but, like, I need to know the brass tacks of it. Like, how do I do this? Give me the template, for crying out loud. And then I also love, like, the random pictures, like the picture in the basket. Heather, you're going to get a copy of the book, to be clear.
00:42:46
But, you know, it's an excellent read. Add it to your list. Cannot wait. So tell us about the book. I know, I know.
00:42:53
We, we kind of jumped right into, like, you know, the platform and who you speak with and for. And do but talk about this book. I mean, how many pages are we talking here? Is this a quick read? Sounds like there are some exciting activities in there.
00:43:08
Tell us all about it. Yeah. Okay. So I should say I don't really like most business books. So I was, I was like, okay, if I'm going to write a book, I'm going to write a book that I would actually want to read.
00:43:23
So I don't want it to be super professional. Like drowning. Yeah. If anyone can see Bree holding up my neon smiley face, you know, I don't want walls of text, like overly drawn out argumentation where someone is like, okay, well, what am I supposed to do with this? So it's.
00:43:42
I wrote it in little, like, snackable vignettes. They're all little stories, lessons, tools, mindsets, prompts. So it's very much a book that you can, you know, open over breakfast and read a little bit and put it away. I was also, as I was writing, I think, like, social media. Social media is very few redeeming qualities maybe, but, like, this was one because, like, I'm used to posting on.
00:44:11
On, like, LinkedIn, where I can post or share some thought and an image that really helps Breeng it to light. And I'm like, why can't I? Like, it was frustrating me that I couldn't do it in the book. So I was like, well, we're just going to put in QR codes over the place because everyone has their phones sort of nearby. So when I wanted to share a template to a document or a picture that would Breeng the story to life.
00:44:34
Now we have those in there as well. And then also, like, there's, in many ways, it's a serious book about having fun in that, like, I really pull out the existential dread. You know, there's like, the Sunday scaries. What are you doing with your life if you're not. But also, I didn't.
00:44:58
So I wanted to be serious in content, in many ways. Like, I take this seriously. But also the tone. I was like, I'm just gonna write how I speak. So there's like, more profanity than my editor was comfortable with.
00:45:12
At the end of the book is a crossword puzzle. Because I was making the case that in a world that just wants us to optimize every moment for efficiency, sometimes it's important to do things that have no purpose other than to give us pleasure. So I was like, you know what? Maybe we just have the reader do a crossword puzzle right now, because that has no economic output, and I think it would be delightful. So I. I commissioned a crossword to be made for the book.
00:45:40
So things like that. I very much wanted it to be a joy to read in addition to advocating for the principles of joy. So for our listeners who are coming to conference, and just to be clear, if you're any nonprofit in the state of Pennsylvania, Same lips, shameless plug here, you can come to the conference. You don't have to be a Community Action agency can find more about the conference. We're launching registration here soon, depending on when this episode airs.
00:46:03
But you can go to theCAAP.org and, you know, learn more about what we're going to be hosting at the conference. But you'll get an epic. You'll get a copy of the book, as in our swag bag. Fun fact. We wanted to make sure to lift that up because we think it's a great read.
00:46:18
But I'll give you kind of a quick snippet. And Amy, our editor, if you're listening and. Or our listeners, I'm about to cuss. So, you know, close. Close the eyes of the innocent.
00:46:27
Close the ears of the innocent. Not the eyes. You can close the eyes. I'm not going to do anything. So a couple chapter titles.
00:46:32
Heather. Shoveling shit is fun. If you like your co Shovelers. I mean, truth, true words have never been spoken. I also cuss a lot, Bree, to be clear.
00:46:40
So, like, I think that's also, you know, again, I don't like all business books. So it's. I was like, yes, you're the defender of date nights, crossword puzzles and your health. Right. I mean, your brain works whether you're wearing a suit or stretchy pants.
00:46:53
And as somebody who likes a good suit, to be clear, like, I love suits. I have an overwhelming number of ties, bow ties, socks, shoes, because I do like to dress fancy. But also, you know, I have a ridiculous, as my wife will tell you, even though I just went through the piles, a ridiculous T shirt collection as well. So typically in a zoom room, I'm in a T shirt more often than I'm not.
00:47:18
Anything else bre. That you want to make sure to share about the book. That is something that, you know, you want people to understand about what you were trying to speak to or something that is just right. Like if you hear nothing else. This is the thing I want listeners to hear to hear.
00:47:37
I think particularly for those in impact organizations, there's so much of a focus on the impact. Right. Obviously. So. And I think often we hear the message, put your oxygen mask on first so that you can then help others put their oxygen masks on.
00:47:57
New parents hear that a lot, too. And there's this notion of, like, you have to take care of yourself before you can take care of others. Which is all true. But my rebuttal would be put your oxygen mask on because you're a human who gets to breathe. Breathe like you deserve to breathe.
00:48:17
And so that's my, my hope for those like, doing the incredible important work of serving others, that you too are a human that gets to enjoy your days.
00:48:31
And I hope, I hope you'll take A moment and look for some of the joy in it because it's, it's on offer, you know, if we just take a moment to feel like we're deserving of it and bank it in the moment. Well, as a recovering English teacher, I mean, I will tell you, I loved it. I think with a little bit that I have gotten to know you in our kind of prep call about conference and what Georgia has shared and reading and doing some deep googling on you. I think your book really, even just for our listeners, Bree sent a couple of us her swag box with the, with the book. And even just what you included in the swag box feels so authentically you.
00:49:15
Right. And we've not met in person. We're going to soon. But I think it's just, it's really a branding amazingness. Heather.
00:49:25
I don't know what else to call it. I mean, it's just like, it's perfection in terms of, like, content, how you show up in your writing. Bree, I think it's. It's really. I can't say enough about it.
00:49:36
It's beautiful. Thanks. Yeah, no, my pleasure. Thank you for being willing to go on the journey of hanging out with Kat for a little bit at our conference in October. We're excited to have you.
00:49:46
Oh, my God. Now I have to pick my Halloween costume that I want to wear for karaoke. I'm so. It's true. I mean, you gotta.
00:49:55
I mean, I'm looking for suggestions for my Halloween costume, so. Heather. Feel free, Bree. Feel free. I don't know what it's gonna be yet.
00:50:01
We'll see. We'll start thinking. Well, to our listeners, thank you for joining us on another episode of Hanging out with us. Putting on your thinking cap, learning a little bit about work and how to Bring back joy and fun in our everyday lives. I think, you know, we'd love to dig into this topic more, Bree, but this purpose of this episode is to do kind of a sneak peek so you're less wanting more.
00:50:22
That's the purpose of this discussion today. So mission accomplished. Heather. Oh, fantastic. I'm glad that I was here because I'm going to miss conference.
00:50:30
But, Bree, you're going to be a powerhouse. I cannot wait for all the attendees to get a little dose of you sister, because the world needs it. Now before conference, you can go to Breegroff.com that is two E's, two F's. Bree Groff.com you're getting a copy of the book. If you go to a conference, but if not, you can purchase there and find more information ON Bree there: Breegroff.com thanks everybody for listening. CAAP out. CAAP out. Thank you.
00:51:03
Thank you for being a part of this episode of the Thinking CAAP. Check the show notes for resources and links to other episodes, and don't forget to subscribe and follow to be notified when new episodes are released. If you have any Community Action questions you'd like Beck or one of our local experts to answer in a future episode, please email your questions about Community Action to info@thecaap.org, subject line Thinking CAAP.
If you have any Community Action questions you’d like Beck or one of our local experts to answer in a future episode, please email your questions about Community Action to info@thecaap.org—subject line: Thinking CAAP.