Leadership
What does it take to grow into a confident nonprofit leader while cultivating a culture where teams thrive and missions succeed? In this energizing episode of the Thinking CAAP podcast, Beck Moore and Amanda Hoprich sit down with Rachelle Abbott, CEO of STEP, Inc. and Megan Bair, CEO of Central Susquehanna Opportunities, Inc. (CSO), to unpack the real-world journey from planner to executive—and the lessons learned along the way.
This episode dives deep into building a positive organizational culture that drives collaboration and results, and prioritizing self-care as a leadership essential, not a luxury.
Whether you’re an aspiring executive director, a new manager, or a seasoned nonprofit leader seeking fresh perspective, this conversation is full of practical wisdom, candid reflections, and the kind of inspiration that reminds you why the work matters.
🎧 Tune in to discover the magic of mission-driven leadership—and how to cultivate it from the inside out.
Thinking CAAP Talking Points
[0:00] Introduction and Background of the Guests
The episode introduces the host and guests, Megan Bair and Rachelle Abbott, as CEOs from the Community Action Network.
They discuss their unexpected career paths and passion for nonprofit leadership.
[3:41] Advice for New Executive Directors
The guests share advice for new executive directors stepping into leadership roles after long-term leaders.
They emphasize the importance of learning, asking questions, and respecting the organization's history while looking towards the future.
[8:41] Self-Care and Balance
The host and guests discuss the importance of self-care for leaders in demanding roles.
They highlight the value of finding supportive people, setting boundaries, and making time for activities that bring inspiration and relaxation.
[10:23] Beck's Approach to Self-Care
Beck Moore shares his personal approach to self-care, including finding inspiration through reading, spending time with family, and engaging in activities like fishing and motorcycling to disconnect from work and recharge.
[11:53] Megan's Approach to Self-Care
Megan Bair discusses the importance of scheduling time out of the office, setting boundaries, and empowering the team to prioritize self-care.
She emphasizes the value of doing things she loves to maintain a healthy work-life balance.
[12:25] Balancing Work and Personal Life
Megan and Rachelle discuss the importance of spending time with family and finding downtime to refresh.
They also highlight the support they receive from their team of leaders.
[13:30] Managing Technology and Notifications
The guests share their strategies for managing technology and notifications to avoid burnout.
They discuss turning off notifications and the difficulty of disconnecting from work.
[14:46] Building a Supportive Network
Rachelle emphasizes the value of being part of a network and the importance of engaging with other leaders to lift each other up.
Megan highlights the strength of their team and the significance of creating a safe space to fail in leadership.
[16:07] Overcoming Challenges as a Leader
Rachelle discusses the external pressure and challenges faced as a younger woman leader, emphasizing the need to prove oneself.
Megan shares her challenge of learning to step back and give the team space to excel.
[21:50] Creating a Strong Workplace Culture
Megan highlights the importance of building workplace culture and recommends a leadership training course by Work Wisdom.
The guests stress the significance of seeking help from others and the value of supporting and uplifting fellow leaders.
[24:00] The Importance of Leadership Development
The conversation discusses the importance of continual leadership development and the evolution of leadership skills.
It emphasizes the need for professional growth and the ongoing journey of building leadership capabilities.
[25:23] Self-awareness and Team Building
The discussion highlights the importance of self-awareness in understanding one's skills and building a team with complementary abilities.
It also emphasizes the need for personal growth and acknowledging areas for improvement.
[26:25] Recommended Resources for Leadership
The guests recommend books and podcasts for leadership development, including "Switch" by Chip and Dan Heath, "On the Edge" by Alison Levine, and "Leaders Eat Last" by Simon Sinek.
They also mention the "Behavioralist" podcast by Work Wisdom as a valuable resource.
[28:02] Recommendation for Adam Grant
Rachelle expresses her admiration for Adam Grant's work and recommends reading any of his books.
She also praises the "Behavioralist" podcast by Work Wisdom as a valuable resource for building leadership skills.
[28:45] Closing Remarks
The hosts thank the guests and listeners for their participation in the episode.
They encourage listeners to email questions for future episodes and express gratitude for being part of the conversation.
Transcript of Episode 14
Amanda Hoprich
00:00
Welcome back to another episode of the thinking cap. I'm Amanda hopridge, joined by my co host.
Beck Moore
00:05
Hello Beck Moore, CEO, here at CAAP, we're excited to be back and talking with two amazing CEOs, executive directors from within the Community Action network. Rachelle Abbott, working at STEP serving and I'm going to make sure, just like I check on every single time I want to make sure I'm gut checking this Lycoming County.
Rachelle Abbott
00:23
Yep. Lycoming, Clinton and then part of Tioga,
Beck
00:25
I was gonna, I knew it. I just, I was really testing you. But thank you so much for being here and Megan Bair, we're welcoming you back, serving CSO, serving Northumberland, Columbia and Montour counties. Thank you both for being here. We're here today to talk a little bit about your leadership journey. So Amanda, you want to kick us off with some questions and jump into it?
Amanda
00:43
I'd love to. I think earlier, I referred to Rachelel's most interesting woman in the world. So this conversation exciting. No pressure.
Rachelle
00:54
It's okay. All right, we're fine.
Amanada 00:56
We're gonna start with an easy question, and I'll start with you. Rachelle is what really inspired you to pursue a career in nonprofit leadership, particularly in Human Services.
Rachelle
01:07
Yeah. So this wasn't the journey I expected to be on at all. And so the fact that I'm here is kind of incredible. So I'm actually a certified planner. And as a certified planner, like all the fun planning stuff, like the city planning, the bit like building development, real estate development, park planning, urban design, all that kind of stuff is really kind of where I started. And then really got into the social aspect of planning. And so was working at Lycoming County, doing lead planning, community development, economic development work, and was really asked to come on to STEP as their first lead planner. And so it was a bit of a leap, a little bit of a different stretch. Luckily, I had quite a bit of experience in social planning, because I did some classes and actually did my Master's in planning at the University of Toronto, which is very heavy in social planning, but definitely it's quite a bit different than what you'd expect from a planner. So did not expect to be here, happy I am. It's definitely a world where, when you first get into it, you don't expect half the things that are actually the reality of boots on the ground work, helping the individuals that need all of the services that are offered today.
Beck
02:20
So true.
Amanda
That's amazing.
Beck
02:22
I think I only know one nonprofit leader who actually intended to work in nonprofit, and I know a lot of nonprofit leaders. That's probably not true. We've never talked about it. But I'm gonna start asking people more frequently, because I only really know one person, unless Megan totally myth busts and tells me that was the plan.
Amanda
02:37
You gonna myth bust?
Megan
I am. Yeah,
Amanda
02:41
I love when planning comes together.
Beck
So same question for you, Megan.
Megan
02:43
Yeah, so I always knew I wanted to work in Human Services. I certainly never had a goal of working in Community Action. But, you know, I worked a couple of for a couple of different nonprofits. My first job was at a homeless shelter in York city, and just really fell in love with serving people and what are considered the hardest to serve people. So when I moved back to this area, I got connected to a nonprofit, and then eventually ended up at CSO, and just have really seen the evolution of the organization. Worked in all the departments, a lot of different positions, just really seeing all aspects of the organization and really getting to see how every position, from the front desk to the CEO, supports families in need.
Beck
03:25
And I think that's one of the things that I really appreciate about both of you, is that approach and really understanding what each aspect and layer of your organization does in order to think about the decisions that you're making and how it impacts each of those roles. So I want to make sure to acknowledge that, because I know that about both of you, and it's something I feel very passionately about as well. I think it is important in what creates a really excellent leader. So I just want to say that out loud to both of you, if you can remind us and our tell, you know, for our listeners a little bit. Megan, first to you, and then Rachelle, how long you've been at your organization, and then how long you've been serving as the executive director.
Megan
03:56
So I started at CSO 25 years ago, and I've been in the role of executive director. It'll be three years this June.
Beck
Awesome.
Rachelle
04:02
Yeah, and for me, so I've been at STEP almost 15 years, and in the role of Executive Director, President and CEO, about a month-ish,
Amanda
04:13
oh yes, we have a fresh
Rachelle
04:17
Yes. So I am fresh to this role and position. This is actually the first day I'm in my office. So as you can see, it's pretty plain because it's the first day.
Beck
04:25
That's awesome. Well, thank you for taking time in your first month to join us. We appreciate you. So I'm I'm curious, because I know, having worked with both of you, you also happen to serve on the CAAP board as two amazing leaders to help guide the association work that we do that you are replacing two, you know, relatively long term CEOs, executive directors in both of your positions. And so I think one of the things that CAAP does is we host a cohort call on a bi monthly basis for new executive directors. And when we say new, what that really means is those that are stepping into their leadership journey in this space for the first time, because it's different, right, than serving as a COO. We're in different roles, there's a whole new set of pressures, and so we want to make sure to create a safe place for our new executives to talk and share. And so really looking for advice for those folks and for others that are stepping into a new executive director role, but particularly within the framework of you're stepping in after someone has been there for a long time, and within Community Action that happens all of the time, right? We have executive directors who have been in their spots for 40-plus years in some instances. So, can you tell us a little bit about just things that are important have been important for you, in how you've started to look at your leadership experience there, and what advice you would give to those folks who are in the same spot as you? Let's, let's go with you. Rachelle first, and then we'll go to we'll go to Megan,
Rachelle
05:41
So I'll start so I think that the big pieces is like, even though you may have been there for, I don't know, 25 years, 15 years, even 10 years, there's likely things that you just don't know, right? And so the position of president & CEO is always holding some kind of space and some kind of, you know, pieces of the puzzle that you probably weren't aware of. And I think that that is kind of one of the biggest things, is really go into it, knowing that you're going to learn through the process and kind of understanding the big picture, that there are definitely areas where you're going to want to better understand. So I think that, for me, has been something that I've kind of come, you know, leaned into through this is like, I know I don't know everything. You know, I'm still meeting with every member of the team. I'm still meeting with all the staff, because of the fact that it's it is very different in this role. And I'm not taking that for granted, the fact that I have been here for so long, it's just things can be different. And, you know, definitely learning things throughout the process that didn't expect. Things, even for efficiencies and those kind of things which are just going to make us a better organization.
Beck
06:45
Yeah, I love that. I appreciate that very much. What about you, Megan
Megan
06:47
I think for me, the biggest thing I learned very quickly was to ask, why a lot? Why do we do it that way? Why has it been done that way? Just really to understand, because when you're when you're coming in a position and replacing a long-term leader, there's a lot of just historical knowledge there. And so the question is always, are we doing it the way we have to, or Is there flexibility in looking at at new ways and new innovations, but also being respectful of past leadership and making sure that you're you're walking that line where you're really respecting our history, and, you know, our reputation within the community, which is very strong and has been really to, you know, help to build on the strength of the past, but looking forward to the future and really just walking that fine line.
Beck
07:31
Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate that. I serve on a board where there was a long-term executive director in place, and it's new leadership now. And one of the things that I hear a lot is this sort of reaction when there's turnover, particularly after long-term leadership leaves. That's the other thing I just want to lift up for folks who are listening, is that just because there's turnover, and I'm not saying that there is or has been in either organizations, this is just commentary for me personally, that it means that something's wrong. But the thing is, right, there's just naturally going to be people that are nervous about change. They're going to opt out right of that change, because they've for whatever reason. And so I think it's an important thing here, you know, is a fairly new Executive Director, myself here at CAAP that that's okay, right? There is a season and time for all things, and folks are going to leave, folks are going to cycle through, and that's, that's all right. And just because you do see turnover doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the new leadership. It just means there's new leadership, and that's and that's certainly Okay.
Amanda
08:24
Well, I give all three of you lots of credit, because I always say I never want to be number one. I like to be the professional Dwight Schrute professional number two. What kind of things have you implemented? If you don't mind me asking for a little bit of self-care in your new role. What little escapes? And this is also for you Beck having just self-admitted. You know, be here like year three. Well, yes, you Megan, are like year three. What has changed in some of you know, keeping maintaining that balance, because this, when you're in that role, it creeps into your life, right? It is you are on all the time. What are some things that you've implemented? And we'll start with Beck in your self care journey and changes since you've been in the leadership role.
Beck
09:09
So I would point to a couple different things. I think, number one, find the people that give you energy right, and find a way to spend more time with them. And so I'll give you, you know, an example. I got the chance to travel with Rachelle recently to a national conference, which was awesome, because I genuinely enjoy spending time with her, and she just happens to serve on my board, which is also fantastic, but being able to have that downtime and just really speak frankly and honestly about the things that you're hearing and experiencing, and just know that you're in the work together, Right, and that you're supporting each other. So it's still work time, but it doesn't feel as difficult. And we all have people that we supervise, right, who are energy givers and our energy suckers. And so I think figuring out how to balance your day and giving yourself sort of those pump-up moments is really important. And then secondly, I am someone who, you know, have serious ADHD. Thank God I’m medicated my poor wife if I wasn't, but I really need to find time that I can turn my brain off. And there's very few things that do that for me. And so during the summer in particular, and or when there are nice days, making sure that I really take advantage of that day, go fishing, ride my motorcycle, which surprises everybody. Every time I say it, yes, I ride a Harley.
Amanda
The beard doesn't make it a surprise anymore.
Beck
That's fair. That's fair. But finding that downtime where I really can just turn off all of the things that I'm thinking about and strategizing about is super, super critical. And I think the other thing that I am starting to appreciate right now, in particular, that I'm doing again, is reading and trying to find things that bring me inspiration. Because I, you know, we're all surrounded by so much in this space as federally funded organizations who are navigating a new atmosphere, it's hard to not feel overwhelmed. And so I've, you know, I went to the library this weekend with my kiddos and checked out some books to try to bring back some inspiration to some great thinkers that I'm hoping, you know, inspire me to continue keeping on, keeping on.
Amanda
11:04
love that. What about you, Megan, what have you done for yourself now that you're you know, in that top leadership role in finding balance in your life?
Megan
11:15
Yeah, I really appreciate this question, because definitely in this role, you're always on, you know, where I'm always getting text messages, emails, weekends, evenings, it doesn't stop. And so I appreciate that I've definitely had to be more intentional about making sure that I'm taking care of myself. So couple of things that I've done are very similar to Beck’s. I've been definitely much more intentional about scheduling time out of the office and also telling my team when I'm off, I'm out, I'm get, you know, and also I hate saying that even now, but it also empowers them to know when they're out of the office. I'm not they're not expecting to hear from me either. And so just really giving each other permission to respect time out of the office is huge, because there's nothing worse than having a day, you know, a vacation day, and having to constantly be checking your cell phone to make sure you're not missing something back at the office. So we've really implemented that culture shift at CSO, when you're out, you're out, and the expectation is, if someone really, truly needs you, we'll reach out to you. So scheduling time out, protecting time out in the office, and then also just making sure that, you know, I'm doing things that I love too, spending time with my family, doing things that are fun for me, just giving myself that downtime to refresh and relax. And also, we have a phenomenal team of leaders locally, you know, other directors that I know I can reach out to if I'm really struggling or really feeling burnt out on an issue, just knowing that that support is there is just really incredible, too.
Beck
12:45
I want to make sure to say this, because it's, you know, when, when your kid says it to you, it hits differently. But my son said to me not that long ago, he's like, Well, Daddy, what's more important? Me or your phone? Like, oh, okay, I hear you. Okay, I got it. I'm gonna put this down and focus. And that's, that's, that's hard for me, because when I hear the bing, so I've also turned off my notifications on a lot of things, like when I'm when I'm done, I'm trying to really be diligent about that, and that is very difficult.
Amanda
13:09
I was gonna say it, I think it was, maybe it wasn't you Beck, but someone on on the CAAP team had said, when they go on vacation, they delete outlook and teams, yeah, yeah. I was gonna say, I swear it was you Beck. And I was like, that's such a great idea. Just delete it off your phone, because then you don't get the bings and the visceral reaction, because they could be a meme. Someone said, yeah, it's extremely triggering, but what a great sentiment, Megan. And Rachelle, if we haven't checked all the boxes, is there anything that you have found that has really worked for you on your leadership journey. Now, being in that, in that top responsibility role?
Beck
You can say it, it's spending time with me. I know
Rachelle
13:48
I do also want to say, like, if somebody made me delete Outlook or teams off my phone, I would like, literally have a panic attack, and I could not handle it at all. So I am always on. I definitely am more respectful of making sure my staff has their own time than I am of myself, to be very honest. But I think one of the values and what gives me energy is the fact that we are part of a network, right? And so we all do have each other's backs, and we can all really engage in a way. And, you know, I think it's, you know, being part of the brain trust and, like, being able to have those conversations and just those are all things that lift people up as leaders, right? You know, because everybody is going through the same thing. So, you know, well, last week was tough. It probably would have been tougher if we were all in our own place. So
Beck
14:40
It's one of the things that very early on, I so appreciated about joining CAAP and not coming from the world of Human Services. I worked in membership organizations, so I didn't understand the work yet. I had never heard of Community Action before I came here, and so had to, you know, try to climb very quickly up a very steep learning mountain alongside of you all. And you all have been so helpful informing me, but early on that time together at conferences and just getting kind of informal downtime and talking recently, our board got together, and a lot of that, you know, we got to the business of what we needed to but then we just spent a little bit of downtime just kind of debriefing and talking through some things. And I just, I know that everyone said that when they left, we're really not looking forward to going because it was travel, but it filled, it filled everybody's cup in a way that they didn't even know that they needed. And so sometimes just being, you know, in the same space as other executive leadership is very, very helpful and energy-giving for sure.
Rachelle
15:32
Yes, totally.
Amanda
Gotta fill that cup up, literally and figuratively.
Beck
15:36
It's true. So I think we have a couple more questions. We want to make sure to keep our episode on time here, and I'm terrible about doing that, which I continue to say so it's me holding myself accountable. I want to make sure to ask this question of both of you, is what has really been one of your biggest challenges in your leadership journey, and not necessarily just as an executive director, but as a leader in other capacities? Because I know that you've been, you've both had different leadership experiences in other roles, what's, what's that one thing that you just like, you know, if only this, and I'm not, you know, don't have to disclose any names. Change the names to protect the innocent, whatever you want to do. But anything in particular, it could be feeling, it could be a moment, could be an example.
Rachelle
16:12
So I think, as a relatively younger woman leader, there is way more even, even, like, exterior pressure, right? Like, put on, like, really, you're, you're the CEO, or, like, you're the chief operations officer. And I'm like, Yeah, I am. And so, you know, like, because of those comments, you have to, I mean, for me, I'm just like, I'll show them, you know, like, I'll show you what I can prove from value. But like, for some, that can be really challenging, right? And for some people, they that's why they can't get up to those leadership roles, is because it's a tough call. And so I can definitely see that I kind of take it with stride, and like to show yeah, I got this well, so I think that that's been one of the biggest challenges. And I mean, it still continues, so it's definitely real.
Beck
17:03
Yeah, I and I think this for particularly those of you who are stepping into your leadership journey earlier on in life. So having been a COO, I think, in my very early 30s, and looking very young, you know, as a matter of fact, I recently met an executive director's mom. She happened to be traveling with this executive director, and now she refers to me as a little boy that this particular Executive Director works with. How's that little boy doing? She says all the time anyway, but I think because of that, a lot of times I hear newer leaders and they tend to say, Well, I've done this and I've done that right when they're showing up for that space, because it's our reaction to I need to prove that I belong in this room, and I want to urge anyone who is in that space to think about really like it's about showing. I can tell you all the things that I've done, but that doesn't that just feels right, like trying to prove something. And I'm someone who very much believes in proving yourself by actions, not by just telling me about all the things you've done. And so I think that I love that, that answer, Rachelle, because I think that is so important. We all have some form of imposter syndrome, right? There's some, there's always something internal that kind of is this argument with ourselves, I think, particularly for the really good leaders who are thoughtful, vulnerable and so just remember, everybody, it's about what you do.
Rachelle
18:13
100% it's all about action.
Beck
Megan, what about you?
Megan
8:16
So I'm going to take a little bit of a different approach and say, I think my challenge has oftentimes been myself. I really like to control things, and so me too. Yeah, and so you know over the years, just really learning you know when to step up and when to step back, and really just giving the team space to do what they do so well, and knowing that not every little detail has to be exactly the way I would have it done has been something that I, you know, learned early in my leadership career, is to to give people space to do the jobs that you hired them to do and to trust them, but also then to build in that sense of security. If we mess up, it's okay, we'll fix it and start over. So really getting out of the way of the team and letting them do what they do best.
Beck
19:00
Yeah, scope of control is super important. Amanda has heard me say this all the different events that we have planned together over the years, right? What has been within the scope of our control? What do we have the capacity to actually control? Let's reflect on those things rather than reflecting on the things that I don't have any control over, right? The tech booth, you know, the sound messing up, or whatever it might be. And so you got to acknowledge that.
Rachelle
19:21
Which, I think why it's so important to surround yourself with the folks on your team that are, you know, in some ways, much better than you are, right? Like that do things way better than you because they're the people that you're going to be able to trust. Right. Like, you know, we have staff members who are absolutely incredible doing things that, like, are, you know, necessary and needed. And you know that is, I think the key to building that good team is understanding the strengths of a team and the individuals within the team, and then how they relate to like, what you do best, and then how you can really, kind of bring them up alongside and really kind of showcase their success.
Beck
20:00
Yeah. 1,000% Yes, yes, yes. Hashtag truth, however you want to say it, amen, preach..
Amanda
20:06
I think at CAAP, you know, we live that message, and our whole team goes through Strengths Finder. We map out all the team strengths. And it just like, from the top to the bottom in every project we think about, even if this isn't someone's necessarily core responsibility, they can be a leader, because this is their strength on this project or this event. And I always give you know, Beck, does this like no other, is creating that safe space to fail in your leadership journey, having that safe place that sometimes you know, putting yourself out there seems intimidating, or getting over that next challenge or barrier in a way that, you know, you have the whole team to kind of rally around, and that that's it's an amazing feeling to have.
Beck
20:54
I think, in a perfect example of that is think about the very first time you ever had to present to a board of directors, you know, and most of us have to do that for the first time in a big way. And so if you can give people that opportunity in a small way, that makes it far less overwhelming when they do get to sit in the in the seat, and so that right five minutes or so, or those moments where they get to present to a funder, or whatever, I think, is always something that I've had leaders that I talked about this on a prior episode, that I've always had leaders who have done that for me, and it's something that I've always felt very passionately about trying to give back to my team.
So I think we have time for maybe one more question. Amanda, keep me honest here. Yes, I want to make sure to ask, is there anything in particular that either one of you want to lift up that you think is just really important around this topic of leadership and things that you hold you know close to your heart in this space could be a resource, could be a book, could be a podcast, like the Thinking CAAP, for instance, or it could be something else, a group of professionals that you work with, but anything in particular that has just been something you want to make sure to share.
Megan
21:50
Yeah, I can. I can take this one first. So for me, one of the things I really tried to hone in on at CSO is, is culture building and really, really strengthening that within the organization. Right before I transitioned into the leadership role, I was lucky enough to get connected with Rachelle to a leadership training course that lasted about six months. So it really carried me through the early part of becoming CEO, and it was facilitated by Work Wisdom, and Sarah from Work Wisdom has just been such a great resource for me personally, and just really helping to build the culture at CSO, and then also share it with the staff in a way that really resonates with them, so they can see the value and the importance of what we're trying to do here as a team, you know, working together, and how it really relates to our mission and enables us to do our jobs more effectively. So I would would say, you know, looking at building workplace culture, what starts by really assessing where you're starting from, and then looking at where you want to go, and just really coming up with a strong way to communicate that with staff has been something that I've really been focusing in on. And Work Wisdom is great. But also, I will say, Beck, you, have been someone I've called throughout my first three years here, and I know I really appreciate that, that we have that support within the system. Rachelle has been someone I can reach out to. So just really, don't be afraid to ask for help. If you're not sure or stuck, it's okay to say, hey, I need some help with this, and to get feedback and ideas from other people.
Beck
23:16
Yeah, always, always my pleasure. And I think it's something that is great about our network of leaders, people are always willing to help each other, for sure.
Rachelle
23:23
Yeah, I think that really sets us apart, and which really does, like, you know, we're only as great as the least of us, and so we have to build each other up. And how we build each other up is even through, you know, having the conversation and being able to answer those phone calls and having those conversations, right? You know, any whether it's something small or something big, like, how do I replicate a program that's doing really successful? I mean, that's really kind of helping and leaning into, you know, helping that other organization be successful. So a little-known fact about me. Here's another, another fact I one of my first jobs was helping to operate a Leadership Development Center, and I know, right?
Beck
24:01
That tells me so many, just a whole bunch of puzzle pieces just clicked place for me. Go ahead.
Rachelle
24:06
Like, and, you know, I think, like, as part of that team, you know, our biggest thing was culture, right? Positive organizational culture, you know, it's about, like the little, tiny skills that you have, and about basically like an addition, right? So each time you add a new skill, you're building your own kind of leadership, you know, pot and so it's like the continual piece. But leadership also takes time to build, but also takes the time to continue, right? You need those professional credits like continuing for leadership, because it's not like it just once you become a leader, it just stops, right? Because the evolution of leadership changes so dramatically that that has to be something that you kind of continually to build into your life. And so I think that that is something for sure, that was a big focus there, and something. That it's focused now it's like, how do you have that continual leadership development? And definitely want to echo Megan in terms of Work Wisdom is amazing. We work with Sarah a lot, and she does great work, both on an individual level as well as on the group level within our team. And so I think that those are, you know, all great things, but definitely think about leadership as like we talk about it as a journey, but as a journey, you have to keep adding, right? You have to like, not be stale. You have to be kind of thoughtful, and what the next step looks like.
Beck
25:27
Well, I think, to that end, and I appreciate Work Wisdom’s approach to this. And one of my who my executive coach was, Deborah Marine, who I also mentioned on prior episode, you know, she, she was my executive coach, and she looks at this very similarly. Is that to your point, both of your points, right? We, all grow, and we have to evaluate ourselves, and until we can be the best for our team, right? We have to know who we are. We have to understand our skill set, because I can't hire somebody who's going to match me, right and compliment my skills to your point earlier, right? About building up a team, I have to know what I do really well and what I don't do really well and be honest about that so that I can find the people who compliment me, and then I have to grow and acknowledge Yes, I have made mistakes, and here's the things that I know I need to evolve in in myself to really be the best that I can be. So I know we're coming up on time. Amanda, do you have any other questions for either one of our amazing guests?
Amanda
26:11
I guess I'm just going to ask you all for our listeners, what would be your top book podcast, or we'll say blog for them to check out on leadership. So Beck, what would be your top book podcast or blog?
Beck
26:25
I shared this on our art on the episode that, I think, Episode Six, that Heather Holloway, one of my other co-hosts, interviewed me, is that Chip and Dan Heath, 1,000,000%, they are two of my favorite authors. I'm not really a fan of business books. I don't there's I just I can't get into them. I can't get into them. I can't read them, and even if I listen to a podcast, doesn't stick in my brain. But they really take simple approaches to things. And one of the books that they have a switch, which has sort of been one of my Bibles that I like to describe, about how to change when change is hard. It has been so helpful for me. And then Allison Levine, who wrote on the edge first women's climbing, US women climbing expedition of Everest, and her whole concept is right about leadership within really hard environments, really too much, because she curses a lot too she also cursed. And I also which I have really maintained a good language state on all of our podcasts thus far. One day, I will break that, I'm sure. But I really love that in context, because I would argue that hard environments, difficult environments, is always happening within nonprofits. And so they've always been two people that I've always really appreciated and or three people that I've always really appreciated. And so those are, those are mine. And, of course, the ThinkingCAAP, because, you know, well, we have some amazing people that we're talking to.
Amanda
27:28
Megan, what would be? What would you like to leave our listeners to check out for their leadership journey?
Megan
27:32
Yeah, the the book I have most recently read on leadership is Leaders Eat Last by Simon Sinek, which really is, it's great. Yeah, it's it covers everything that we spoke about today. So I'd highly recommend it.
Amanda
27:44
That is a great one. And Rachelle, so now everyone, get your pens out, round out your reading list. Rachelle, what would your recommendation to our listeners be?
Rachelle
27:52
Yeah. So I think at this like, I've been a bit obsessed with Adam Grant as of late, and just like, read all of his things. So doesn't matter what you what book of his, just pick it up and read it. And I also really like the Behaviorist podcast that Work Wisdom does. I mean, it is, you know, the perfect snippet of information, really kind of like building that leadership muscle within that, you know, 20-minute or half-hour podcast. So I would highly recommend that podcast, as well as the Thinking CAAP, of course.
Beck
28:23
I appreciate that, and I'm not even paying you well. Thank you. Yeah, thank you all for the time today. Go ahead, Amanda, close us out.
Amanda
28:31
I just appreciate you all being here. Thank you to our listeners. And remember, if you have any questions that you'd like to propose to the Thinking CAAP, email us at info@thecaap, C, A, p.org. Thank you.
Rachelle
Thank you.
Megan
28:45
Thank you.
Speaker 5 28:50
Thank you for being a part of this episode of the Thinking CAAP. Check the show notes for resources and links to other episodes, and don't forget to subscribe and follow to be notified when new episodes are released. If you have any Community Action questions you'd like Beck or one of our local experts to answer in a future episode, please email your questions about Community Action to info@thecaap.org, subject line Thinking CAAP.